What is the underlying concept behind this non-existent function problem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving the search for non-negative continuous functions defined on the interval [0, 1] that satisfy specific integral conditions. Participants explore the implications of these conditions and the reasoning behind the problem's structure, particularly focusing on the contradiction that arises from the assumptions made.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the purpose of starting with the integral of (x-a)^2f(x) and seek to understand the logical reasoning behind the problem.
  • Others note that the integral from 0 to 1 of (x-a)^2f(x) leads to a contradiction, suggesting that f(x) must equal zero, which conflicts with the initial assumptions of the problem.
  • One participant proposes that if given the problem without instructions, one would need to explore the implications of the conditions and consider what they remind them of, such as properties of probability distributions.
  • Another participant mentions that the conditions imply a variance of zero, which is impossible, hinting at the underlying contradiction in the problem.
  • There is a suggestion that any such function would contradict principles like the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of a contradiction arising from the problem's conditions, but there is no consensus on how to approach the problem logically without prior instructions. Multiple viewpoints on the reasoning process are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of the integral conditions and their relationship to concepts such as probability distributions and variance, but the discussion remains open-ended regarding the exact approach to solving the problem without guidance.

sutupidmath
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Explain this a little please

well i have another problem with finding a(some) functions. The problem is this:
FInd all non-negative continuous functions f:[01]-->R that fullfil the following:

integ from 0 to 1 of f(x)dx =1

integ from 0 to 1 of xf(x)dx=a and

integ from 0 to 1 of x^2 f(x)dx=a^2

where a is an element of the reals.

this problem is in a textbook, and it starts like this

integ from 0 to one of (x-a)^2 f(x) dx, and at the end comes to a contradiction, hence it concludes that such a functions does not exist.

My question is what is really this problem asking?
SO if you could explain a little to me how should i start thinking about this problem? Because i want to fully understand what i am writing, and why am i writing something.
So could anyone please elaborate this problem a little for me?


I really thank all you guys for your time, and for taking the effort on helping us all.

P.S. Btw it is not homework, just a problem i encountered in the textbook.
 
Last edited:
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Essentially, the int. from 0 to 1 of (x-a)^2f(x) =0, therefore f(x)=0, contradicting the original assumptions.
 
mathman said:
Essentially, the int. from 0 to 1 of (x-a)^2f(x) =0, therefore f(x)=0, contradicting the original assumptions.

Yeah, as i stated i got to this contradiction. I can follow all these steps, but my point is that for example why we even started with the int. from 0 to 1 of (x-a)^2f(x) ? I just can't get the point of this problem, what does it really mean. Because i have done it, but more like in a mechanical way, not a logical one. That is why i want to know the logic behind it, or the reasoning?

For example, let us suppose that there were no instructions at all, then how would i have to think about this problem in order to start solving it. Because as long as i saw that instruction, i managed to do the rest, but like i stated, not in a reall logical way.
 
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so is anyone else going to give me some instructions?
 
It's used because it produces a contradiction. It is a contrived question.
 
ZioX said:
It's used because it produces a contradiction. It is a contrived question.
Yeah, i have figured that out as well. Maybe i am being a little ambiguous. What i want to know is that if we were given just the problem

FInd all non-negative continuous functions f:[01]-->R that fullfil the following:

integ from 0 to 1 of f(x)dx =1

integ from 0 to 1 of xf(x)dx=a and

integ from 0 to 1 of x^2 f(x)dx=a^2

where a is an element of the reals.

and not any instruction at all, then how should i tackle this problem?
Assume that you have never seen this problem solved before, then what would you do?? How would one know at first place that such a function does not exist, or we should just suppose it. But again how to start?
I want to know how to get the idea of approching this problem, and similar ones?
 
One wouldn't know such a function did or did not exist. One would try to find what kinds of things these conditions imply. One would think what things it reminds one of. Where do I see integrals of f, xf and x^2f? If I couldn't think of any such cases then I'd just play around - suppose that f has a taylor series and I can do term by term integration, what would that imply? I'd also think about variations on the problem.

What I personally would notices is:

it defines is a probability distribution on [0,1] with mean a and second moment a^2, but that implies that the variance is zero. That is clearly impossible, and in fact implies the hint: the variance is the integral of (x-a)^2f(x).
More abstractly what is really going on is that any such f would have to contradict something like the Cauchy Schwartz inequality.
 

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