What is your opinion about Arrhenius' announcement?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Jang Jin Hong
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Arrhenius
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

Svante Arrhenius' recent comments at the Nobel Prize ceremony highlight the ongoing debate surrounding the theory of relativity, particularly its epistemological implications. Participants in the discussion assert that Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR) were not as rigorously verified in the early 20th century as they are today, suggesting that Arrhenius' views are outdated. The conversation also delves into the distinction between physical theories and metaphysical axioms, emphasizing that while theories like electromagnetism have been experimentally verified, the foundational principles of relativity and quantum mechanics remain contentious. The discourse ultimately questions the nature of verification in scientific theories.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR)
  • Familiarity with the concept of epistemology in scientific discourse
  • Knowledge of Maxwell's equations in electromagnetism
  • Basic principles of quantum mechanics and solid state physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the historical verification of Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism and Hertz's experiments from 1888
  • Explore the philosophical implications of epistemology in the context of scientific theories
  • Study the differences between physical theories and metaphysical axioms in scientific methodology
  • Investigate the evolution of the acceptance of Special Relativity and General Relativity in the scientific community
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, philosophers of science, and students of theoretical physics will benefit from this discussion, particularly those interested in the foundations and implications of relativity and its verification through experimentation.

Jang Jin Hong
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
At the ceremony of awarding Nobel prizes,
Svante Arrhenius said as following.

"Most discussion centers on his theory of relativity.
This pertains essentially to epistemology and has therefore
been the subject of lively debate in philosophical circles."

I agree with Arrhenius
what is the opinion of physicsits about this announcement?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
SR & GR were absolutely nowhere near as thoroughly verified in 1921/22 as they are today. Arrhenius' speech is well outdated, and relativity is way more than just an epistemological curiosity.
 
Jang Jin Hong said:
"Most discussion centers on his theory of relativity."
Although Einstein eventually did get the prize (more to the benefit of the prize than to Einstein), it wasn't for his theory of relativity.
 
Gokul43201 said:
SR & GR were absolutely nowhere near as thoroughly verified in 1921/22 as they are today. Arrhenius' speech is well outdated, and relativity is way more than just an epistemological curiosity.

Form of relativity is axioms.
Axioms can not be verified by experiment.
That was accepted by usefulness in calculation.
"verified" and "accepted" are different thing.
the one is process of physical law,
but the other is process of metaphysical axiom.
 
Jang Jin Hong said:
Form of relativity is axioms.
Axioms can not be verified by experiment.
Can you give an example of a physical theory that has been verified by experiment?
 
jimmysnyder said:
Can you give an example of a physical theory that has been verified by experiment?
Except relativity itself and Quantum mechanics itself, Almost every thing described in textbook of physics are physical theory.
electomagnetic theory, astronomical theory, solid state physics, etc...
 
Jang Jin Hong said:
Except relativity itself and Quantum mechanics itself, Almost every thing described in textbook of physics are physical theory.
electomagnetic theory, astronomical theory, solid state physics, etc...
Solid state physics is nothing but the quantum mechanics of solids. Astrophysics is built upon relativity. And the most accurate physical theory we have today is the theory describing electromagnetism - it's called quantum electrodynamics.
 
Jang Jin Hong said:
electomagnetic theory.
Which experiment verifies electromagnetic theory?
 
jimmysnyder said:
Although Einstein eventually did get the prize (more to the benefit of the prize than to Einstein), it wasn't for his theory of relativity.

The official motivation is "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect"

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1921/
 
  • #10
Gokul43201 said:
Solid state physics is nothing but the quantum mechanics of solids. Astrophysics is built upon relativity. And the most accurate physical theory we have today is the theory describing electromagnetism - it's called quantum electrodynamics.
We study that field of physical phenomena by using quantum mechanics and relativity.
The application of quantum mechanics and relativity are physics.
but to investigate relativity itself and quantum mechanics itself are not physics.
those are metaphysics.
 
  • #11
Jang Jin Hong said:
The application of quantum mechanics and relativity are physics.
but to investigate relativity itself and quantum mechanics itself are not physics.
those are metaphysics.
Was the investigation of Newtonian mechanics also not physics but only metaphysics?

And that brings us also to jimmy's question, which you are yet to answer.
 
  • #12
Gokul43201 said:
Was the investigation of Newtonian mechanics also not physics but only metaphysics?
In my thought, Newton's first law is a metaphysical axiom.
I will not say about that problem in this forum. because that require long explanation.
And that brings us also to jimmy's question, which you are yet to answer.
I have said that. I can not understand what you want.
Kepler's elliptical orbit theory in astronomy.
Maxwell's equation in electomagnetism.
GL theory in solid state physics. etc..
 
  • #13
Jang Jin Hong said:
I can not understand what you want.
I am trying to understand what you mean by the word 'verify'. It sounds to me as if you mean that some scientific theories have been proven to be true by means of experiment but that others have not. That is why I ask again. Which experiment verifies electromagnetic theory? Who performed the experiment? When?
 
  • #14
I would also like to know if you can state the theory of electromagnetism as you understand it. I ask this because I want to know what you consider an axiom and what you do not consider an axiom.
 
  • #15
jimmysnyder said:
I am trying to understand what you mean by the word 'verify'. It sounds to me as if you mean that some scientific theories have been proven to be true by means of experiment but that others have not. That is why I ask again. Which experiment verifies electromagnetic theory? Who performed the experiment? When?

Hertz verified Maxwell's theory about electromagnetic radiation in 1888 by using resonator.
 
  • #16
Jang Jin Hong said:
Hertz verified Maxwell's theory about electromagnetic radiation in 1888 by using resonator.
Does this mean that electromagnetic theory is now a fact, or is it still a theory?
 
  • #17
jimmysnyder said:
Does this mean that electromagnetic theory is now a fact, or is it still a theory?

Your question have some trap.
That is fact in the condition of relativity is accepted.
 
  • #18
Jang Jin Hong said:
That is fact in the condition of relativity is accepted.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks.
 
  • #19
There are some people who have a antagonism to use word "metaphysics".
but I do not use word "metaphysics" to devaluate relativity and quantum mechanics.
Those are useful and important theories.
But there are too many distorted informations about relativity in general public,
such as wrong thought of Karl Popper.
 

Similar threads

Graduate Abour Riccardo Giacconi's opinion about the multiverse?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Undergrad What is your opinion about Freeman Dyson's opinion on the unification?
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
What's your opinion about Robert Kiyosaki's books?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Strict forum rules vs learning science
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
Admissions Honest opinions and advice on Statement of Purpose requested
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Graduate Consistent Histories solipsism?
  • · Replies 100 ·
4
Replies
100
Views
7K
Graduate Focus all of your ire on me, if you would
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
I want to help Physics education. What should I do?
  • · Replies 76 ·
3
Replies
76
Views
6K
Graduate Shinichi Mochizuki's ABC Conjecture and Replication Crisis in Maths
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
8K
Graduate Opinions or facts about M theory
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K