What performance moved you to tears?

[Evo]

Fine, here's another one.

It's an elephant doing tricks it was taught. What's the point? Have you never been to a circus?

 

[Poop-Loops]

Have you ever tried throwing darts? That stuff is HARD.

 

[Evo]

Have you ever tried throwing darts? That stuff is HARD.

Yes, I've thrown darts, and inadvertantly did spectacular. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing and somehow won.

I can imagine an elephant's thrust would be much more than a man's.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Yes, but did you throw them with your nose?

 

[montoyas7940]

There is no way that dart video is real. There was no Beer.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Are you saying that Darts can only be present in a B-Field?

 

[montoyas7940]

Who... Me?

 

[Evo]

Yes, but did you throw them with your nose?

If I stood close enough to have the same velocity as the elephant's throw, I'm sure I could do as well. An elephant's trunk is quite agile.

And I have insider information that the elephant had already embibed several gallons of Guinness.

 

[Werg22]

Meh. Elephants aren't that intelligent. I know one that lost all its money betting on the Rangers.

 

[tribdog]

Of course the elephant painting video is a fake. I saw it a few days ago and at first I was so amazed and I completely fell for it. The first half of the drawing blew me away, the second half though when it started going over lines to make them darker and then drawing the flower gave it away. It is a pretty good fake though they just went too far with it.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

That elephants not talented, I can paint better than that. I know apes paint, I'm sure elephants can paint, but whether they are budding artists with talent?

http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php"

http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php"

I think the paintings are more likely to look like this though:

EDIT: useless fact #283782636726732: elephants may well have more than 40,000 muscles in their trunk alone.

 

[Moonbear]

It's an elephant doing tricks it was taught. What's the point? Have you never been to a circus?

As I said, even if it's a trick it was taught, it's still pretty incredible how precisely it draws...try to get a 5 year old to follow the lines that neatly. Heck, even if there's light pencil lines on the paper that we can't see, or someone coaching it or holding up pictures for it to copy just out of camera view, it's still pretty cool just for the control the elephant has over the paintbrush. (By the way, it is clear the elephant isn't the one deciding when to "refresh" the brush or picking colors...one of the wider angle shots shows the trainer exchanging brushes for the elephant.)

 

[tribdog]

Oh c'mon moonbear. Don't tell me you really fell for it.

 

[Evo]

As I said, even if it's a trick it was taught, it's still pretty incredible how precisely it draws...

I was referring to the video of it throwing darts at balloons.

 

[gravenewworld]

You can't be serious. Do you see how many cuts there are? There is no continuous video of the elephant drawing anything. Just shots of him starting to hold up the brush.

Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.

 

[Evo]

Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.

You post a chopped up and badly edited youtube video and claim it's authentic, I am afraid the onus is on you to prove that it's real. The burden of proof lies with you for claiming it's real. Where did you get the notion that the burden of proof is with the skeptic?

I could create hoaxes all day and then tell you that if you don't believe me that you are required to prove me wrong?

 

[Moonbear]

I was referring to the video of it throwing darts at balloons.

I didn't see that one.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.

Actually not, we all know elephants can't paint like humans, you're trying to claim they can. I think I'd accept a simple rendering from an elephant but you're asking us to believe elephants are sophisticated self aware and talented artists. I'd say the burden of proof is on you to be honest.

 

[lisab]

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof; it's not the skeptic's job to disprove an extraordinary claim.

A video that is zoomed in showing only the brush in the elephant's trunk is too easily faked.

 

[gravenewworld]

Actually not, we all know elephants can't paint like humans, you're trying to claim they can. I think I'd accept a simple rendering from an elephant but you're asking us to believe elephants are sophisticated self aware and talented artists. I'd say the burden of proof is on you to be honest.

Where did I ever say elephants can paint like humans? All I said was that the elephant in the original video is the one actually painting the picture.

You post a chopped up and badly edited youtube video and claim it's authentic, I am afraid the onus is on you to prove that it's real. The burden of proof lies with you for claiming it's real. Where did you get the notion that the burden of proof is with the skeptic?

I could create hoaxes all day and then tell you that if you don't believe me that you are required to prove me wrong?

And what have you posted? Nothing.




Elephant art has been known since the '80s. What is in the original video is nothing new at all.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yeah but no offence the most sophisticate image I've seen on that Elephant art website is a picture of a flower. A self portrait simply is a quantum leap on a picture of what looks like a flower in psychological terms.

I'm willing to accept the video is genuine only if there is corroborative evidence, don't feel bad I don't trust anything the American media says or my own half the time these days when there is an extraordinary piece of news. If I did I'd believe that Iran was definitely building nukes and Ahmadinejhad actually did say "wipe Israel off the map". Both of which have been effectively discredited.

 

[gravenewworld]

Yeah but no offence the most sophisticate image I've seen on that Elephant art website is a picture of a flower. A self portrait simply is a quantum leap on a picture of what looks like a flower in psychological terms.

I'm willing to accept the video is genuine only if there is corroborative evidence, don't feel bad I don't trust anything the American media says or my own half the time these days when there is an extraordinary piece of news. If I did I'd believe that Iran was definitely building nukes and Ahmadinejhad actually did say "wipe Israel off the map". Both of which have been effectively discredited.

I guess the BBC must be lying too when it also claims that elephants can paint other elephants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5203120.stm

Elephants have over 40,000 muslces in their trunks, it probably isn't surprising then that they may have some decent trunk eye coordination.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Now that I'll buy because it's shockingly rubbish and it says that x is the only elephant to master a self portrait. To be honest I'd queery whether it was a self portrait or a picture of another elephant, I don't think there's any way to tell. But since even chimpanzees painting themselves is very controversial, and they are said to have some sort of self awareness, I'd need more convincing that that is a self portrait.

Also I'm still not sure that video is genuine.

 

[Moonbear]

YA self portrait simply is a quantum leap on a picture of what looks like a flower in psychological terms.

Oh, I wasn't buying that it was really a self-portrait. That was just the title of the video, but doesn't mean that's what was being shown. I just think it's cute having the elephant draw an elephant. And, it's still a better elephant than I can draw!

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Oh, I wasn't buying that it was really a self-portrait. That was just the title of the video, but doesn't mean that's what was being shown. I just think it's cute having the elephant draw an elephant. And, it's still a better elephant than I can draw!

Oh yeah I didn't think you did. I'm willing to believe an elephant can paint I've seen the pictures before. But I don't know if that one is 100% authentic, it could be that he's the next Elephant equivalent of Vincent Van Gough or Monet. I just have my doubts like Evo. And I don't think it's that unfair to ask if there's anything more, you know, concrete.

It's like me claiming patently this prairie dog can act:

 

[lisab]

I like the talent of the person who drew this elephant:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1523983&postcount=467

I now return this thread to its original topic .

 

[DaveC426913]

These days I'll be suspicious of anything if it's on YouTube, but granting for the moment that the video is genuine:

Is it hard to believe that an elephant can be trained to create movements such as this and repeat them in front of an audience? Surely we agree that this elephant is going through the motions that it was taught, without any real understanding of what it's doing?

The only thing that stretches credibility for me is the sheer number of strokes in the sequence.

In other words, this elephant can create this picture and this picture alone, and only through repitition.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Possibly, but either way it's not very convincing as a work of art, as either way there's no real art involved. So if either possibility is true, ie it's faked or it's trained. It's not particularly amazing. If it's neither trained nor faked, fairly unlikely, then it's not just amazing the elephant is a genius.

 

[Evo]

I guess the BBC must be lying too when it also claims that elephants can paint other elephants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5203120.stm

Elephants have over 40,000 muslces in their trunks, it probably isn't surprising then that they may have some decent trunk eye coordination.

The article says

Mrs Khunapramot, who set up the Thai Fine Art company after studying the history of art in St Andrews and business management at Edinburgh's Napier University, said it took about a month to train the animals to paint.

Elephant expert Dr Joyce Poole, who has studied the animals for 30 years, said she owned an elephant painting but had not come across animals painting their own images.

The Oslo-based scientist said: "I have seen elephants painting, but it was very free-flow.

"It's certainly capable of drawing an elephant, and could be trained, but might not really understand what it was doing."

So they trained an elephant to paint a pattern. That's a long stretch to claiming an elephant can knowingly paint a portrait. From looking at the pattern the elephant made in the BBC article, there's your proof that the videos are faked.

 

[drankin]

As far as I'm concerned, that elephant painted a picure on canvas. Whether the elephant knew what it was painting or not, I don't know. Regardless, it's impressive. Even if the elephant didn't know what it was painting (painting memorized lines), it's still incredible that it can precisely create those lines.

Now, with this video, it looks like one could be guiding the strokes from the other side of the trunk, carefully hiding their arms or maybe they are guiding the elephant another way, kind of like how you can guide a horse without touching reins.