What role does Quantum Mechanics play in a internal combustion engine?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the role of quantum mechanics in the functioning of internal combustion engines, questioning its relevance and application within classical thermodynamic systems. Participants consider both theoretical implications and practical aspects, including the atomic level interactions and material properties involved in engine operation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that while internal combustion engines are primarily classical systems, quantum mechanics could theoretically inform certain aspects, such as material properties derived from quantum principles.
  • One participant points out that quantum mechanics might play a role in the electronics of the engine, specifically in flash memory ICs used in the Engine Control Unit (ECU), prompting a discussion about the specific quantum processes involved.
  • Another participant questions the relevance of quantum mechanics to the historical development of internal combustion engines, citing that early models predate quantum theory.
  • There is a suggestion that quantum mechanics could explain atomic stability, which is foundational to the materials used in engines, although this may not align with the original inquiry about engine operation.
  • A participant expresses interest in the individual atomic energy changes during heat energy transformations in engines, hinting at a potential connection to statistical mechanics rather than quantum mechanics.
  • One response asserts that statistical mechanics, rather than quantum physics, is the appropriate framework for understanding the bulk properties of matter in the context of heat output in engines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the relevance and application of quantum mechanics to internal combustion engines. While some acknowledge its theoretical implications, others argue that classical and statistical mechanics are more applicable to the discussion at hand. The conversation remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the specific role of quantum mechanics in practical applications, with some suggesting that the inquiry may be better suited to statistical mechanics. There are also references to historical context that may limit the applicability of quantum mechanics to modern engines.

obbeel
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Thermodynamics deal with quantum mechanics all the time, so I wondered what role it played in a internal combustion engine. Could we calculate it and how does it affect the engine's final output?
 
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Internal combustion engines are classical.

Of course you can always apply QM to classical systems if you want to make a point. And a lot of the classical constitutive relations and material properties would be derived from QM in principle if not in practice
 
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obbeel said:
so I wondered what role it played in a internal combustion engine.
About the only place is in the flash memory ICs in the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and other electronics (like the Entertainment Center). Can you say why flash memory ICs use QM in their operation? What part of their operation specifically? :wink:
 
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I don't really understand the question. The model T certainly predates quantum theory so Henry Ford did OK.
But the world is unstable according classical theory, so there is that.
 
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I was going to write something much like @hutchphd did. One might say that QM explains the stability of atoms, and IC engines are made of atoms, so... but I somehow don't think this is what the poster had in mind.
 
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I'm interested in the method that heat energy changes at an individual level. We can measure the heat output of an internal combustion engine, but how do the changes occur? I'm sure there is a chemical answer to this, but what would be the answer if we sum all individual atoms energies?

Maybe the answer would be in a statistical mechanics book, but I found it interesting how a enclosed space like an internal combustion engine can represent a change in atom energy.
 
obbeel said:
Maybe the answer would be in a statistical mechanics book,
Yes, that is where you’ll find it. And there’s no quantum physics involved, it’s all bulk properties of matter.

This thread is closed.
 

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