What would it even mean to consider a "half" derivative?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of fractional derivatives, specifically the notion of a "half" derivative. Participants explore the implications, definitions, and potential applications of fractional calculus in various contexts, including physics and complex analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the meaning and utility of a half derivative, suggesting it might lie between the first and second derivatives of a function, but express uncertainty about its implications.
  • There is a proposal that fractional derivatives could be defined through the expansion of differentiation as an operator, although concerns about convergence and proper definition are raised.
  • One participant mentions the use of the Fourier transform to generalize differentiation to fractional orders, noting a lack of clarity on what constitutes "sufficiently well-behaved" functions in this context.
  • Another participant references Riemann's work in complex analysis, suggesting that fractional derivatives can be derived from the Cauchy integral formula and involve the gamma function for defining factorials at rational numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and interpretation of fractional derivatives, with no consensus reached on their definitions or applications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical utility of half derivatives in physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in defining fractional derivatives, including issues related to convergence and the need for specific function properties. The discussion also touches on the mathematical foundations required to understand fractional calculus, such as the gamma function.

Ethan Singer
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Traditionally, derivatives are taught as a function that have... "Whole" transitions. Take the following example:

If you have the function f(x) = x^2, we find that f'(x) = 2x, and that f''(x) = 2. In other words, it has a first and a second derivative.

But what would it even mean to take a rational number as a derivative? I mean... If there is a half derivative for the function of x, you would first imagine instinctively that it's value would between x^2 and 2x, but beyond that I wouldn't know how to imagine what it would be, or what it would imply.

Is there a derivative for every real number? Imaginary? Are there Partial Half derivatives? What utility do they have? By that I mean, under what circumstance could we use a half-derivative in Physics?
 
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Ethan Singer said:
Traditionally, derivatives are taught as a function that have... "Whole" transitions. Take the following example:

If you have the function f(x) = x^2, we find that f'(x) = 2x, and that f''(x) = 2. In other words, it has a first and a second derivative.

But what would it even mean to take a rational number as a derivative? I mean... If there is a half derivative for the function of x, you would first imagine instinctively that it's value would between x^2 and 2x, but beyond that I wouldn't know how to imagine what it would be, or what it would imply.

Is there a derivative for every real number? Imaginary? Are there Partial Half derivatives? What utility do they have? By that I mean, under what circumstance could we use a half-derivative in Physics?
I have never heard of such a thing and I doubt it would make sense. Perhaps if we consider the differentiation as an operator and then expand its rational powers in a series, there is a small chance to even define it properly in some range. But more likely is that we run into problems to define convergence or something like ##D^nD^{\frac{1}{n}}=D## which I would expect to be required.
 
For sufficiently well-behaved functions, you can use the Fourier transform. Differentiation in the "time domain" corresponds to multiplication by the function ##(\omega \mapsto i \omega)## in the "frequency domain" and that can be generalised to ##(\omega \mapsto (i \omega) ^\alpha)##. It's not something I've ever looked at in detail, so I'm not sure what "sufficiently well-behaved" really means in this context.

(For A-thead-level readers: more generally, for any operator for which the spectral theorem applies, you can use the ##L^2## representation of the operator.)
 
this was done by riemann already in complex analysis. the secret is to represent the nth derivative of a holomorphic function, as a Cauchy integral of an expression involving an (n+1)st power. Then since fractional powers make sense, the analogous Cauchy integral formula with a fractional power should be a fractional derivative. thus the one half derivative of f(z) at z=a, should be the integral of f(z)/(z-a)^3/2. Or maybe you also need to know the value of the factorial function at rational numbers, i.e. use the gamma function. in fact that is perhaps the deeper part. I.e. once you can define the factorial function at fractions you get fractional derivatives. You can check this by looking up the cauchy integral formula for a derivative and see if it has a factorial in it. yes it does, so you need to know what (1/2)! means for this question. i.e. gamma(3/2).
 
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