What's the highest energy produced in an accelerator?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the maximum particle energy produced in particle accelerators on Earth, particularly focusing on current capabilities and future projections, including the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and the Tevatron collider. Participants explore theoretical limits and the implications of energy distribution among particles during collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the current maximum particle energy achievable on Earth and speculate on future accelerators, suggesting figures around 1 TeV.
  • One participant notes that the Tevatron can achieve up to 1 TeV in beam energy, but the maximum energy per particle is estimated to be around 200 GeV, while the LHC is expected to reach about twice that energy.
  • Another participant challenges the energy figures for the LHC, stating that the maximum beam energy will be 7 TeV, implying that the maximum particle mass created should scale accordingly.
  • There is a discussion about the energy of collisions being dependent on the quarks and gluons within protons, rather than the protons themselves, which leads to lower effective collision energies.
  • One participant corrects another regarding the mass of the top quark, asserting it is around 175 GeV, not 119 GeV, and provides data from the D0 experiment to support this claim.
  • Another participant acknowledges a mistake regarding the top quark mass and provides updated figures from the D0 experiment, apologizing for the earlier error.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the maximum energy achievable in particle collisions, with some uncertainty regarding specific energy values and the implications of those values. There is no clear consensus on the exact figures or the interpretation of energy distribution in collisions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that energy values can depend on definitions and the context in which they are presented, such as whether they refer to center of mass energy or energy per parton. This adds complexity to the discussion and highlights the need for clarity in reporting energy figures.

Chaos' lil bro Order
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What's the current maximum particle energy we can produce on earth?

Also, what is the maximum we theoretically will achieve from proposed future accelerators, like the big loop at the LHC? I'm guessing 1TeV.
 
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Chaos' lil bro Order said:
What's the current maximum particle energy we can produce on earth?

Also, what is the maximum we theoretically will achieve from proposed future accelerators, like the big loop at the LHC? I'm guessing 1TeV.


The Tevatron collider outside Chicago can get up to 1 TEV in its beam and primary collisions, as its name implies, but not all that energy can be presented in one particle. The maximum particle energy I think they're looking at is around 200 GEV. LHC will be around twice that energetic. The most energetic thing Tevatron has done so far is refine the mass of the top quark, which is now placed at 119 GEV.

The expected mass of the Higgs is now expected to be somewhere in the range 219 GEV to 250 GEV.
 
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selfAdjoint said:
The Tevatron collider outside Chicago can get up to 1 TEV in its beam and primary collisions, as its name implies, but not all that energy can be presented in one particle. The maximum particle energy I think they're looking at is around 200 GEV. LHC will be around twice that energetic. The most energetic thing Tevatron has done so far is refine the mass of the top quark, which is now placed at 119 GEV.

The expected mass of the Higgs is now expected to be somewhere in the range 219 GEV to 250 GEV.

Are you sure about your numbers for the LHC? I mean, the maximum beam energy will be 7 TeV (or 7 times larger than the Tevatron). So, why shouldn't the maximum particle mass created scale similarly?
 
Parlyne said:
Are you sure about your numbers for the LHC? I mean, the maximum beam energy will be 7 TeV (or 7 times larger than the Tevatron). So, why shouldn't the maximum particle mass created scale similarly?


Could be, I was just speaking from memory. The point is they will be able to explore the weak scale (200+ GEV) in detail.
 
There could also be the subtle detail whether the energy cited is the center of mass energy per parton. Those things are seldom cited clearly in ordinary reports released to the public.

Zz.
 
The Tevatron and the LHC are colliding nucleons together (the LHC is proton-proton while the Tevatron is proton-antiproton). Protons are mainly empty space, with a few quarks and gluons in them, so if you are at high enough energy, the protons will usually pass straight through each other.

Occasionally, the quarks or gluons from one proton colllide with similar from the other (anti)proton, giving you an interaction. The collider energy is the energy of the protons, not the quarks and gluons. Since this energy is shared out amongst the quarks and gluons, the actual collision energy is considerably less.

For example, in the LHC, the protons are mainly made up of gluons with a typical energy of about 600GeV. So a typical LHC collision probes about a TeV (although there are obviously tails in the distributions, so you will get some considerably higher).
 
And the top quark mass is around 175GeV not 119GeV.

The Higgs boson mass is most probably around 120GeV or so. Electroweak precision data indicate it is almost definitely less than about 200GeV.
 
selfAdjoint said:
The Tevatron collider outside Chicago can get up to 1 TEV in its beam and primary collisions, as its name implies, but not all that energy can be presented in one particle. The maximum particle energy I think they're looking at is around 200 GEV. LHC will be around twice that energetic. The most energetic thing Tevatron has done so far is refine the mass of the top quark, which is now placed at 119 GEV.

The expected mass of the Higgs is now expected to be somewhere in the range 219 GEV to 250 GEV.



Can you explain how you get the Top Quark to be 119 GEV? Are you sure you didn't make a mistake? Read this:

'The Collider Detector Facility group had found 56 top candidates over a predicted background of 23 and the D0 group found 17 events over a predicted background of 3.8. The value for the top quark mass from the combined data of the two groups after the completion of the run was 174.3 +/- 5.1 GeV. This is over 180 times the mass of a proton and about twice the mass of the next heaviest fundamental particle, the Z0 vector boson at about 93 GeV.'http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
 
Chaos' lil bro Order said:
Can you explain how you get the Top Quark to be 119 GEV? Are you sure you didn't make a mistake? Read this:

'The Collider Detector Facility group had found 56 top candidates over a predicted background of 23 and the D0 group found 17 events over a predicted background of 3.8. The value for the top quark mass from the combined data of the two groups after the completion of the run was 174.3 +/- 5.1 GeV. This is over 180 times the mass of a proton and about twice the mass of the next heaviest fundamental particle, the Z0 vector boson at about 93 GeV.'http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html[/QUOTE]


I deeply apologize. The latest figures from the D0 experiment at Tevatron are mt = 177.7 ± 8.8(stat)+3.7
−4.5(syst) GeV. (published last July). I don't know where I got that other number! Teach me to post in a hurry.
 
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