What's the Point of High-Powered Cars in a World of Speed Limits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relevance and practicality of high-powered cars in the context of speed limits, particularly questioning the necessity of vehicles capable of exceeding legal speed limits when such speeds are rarely permissible in most countries. Participants explore the implications of consumer choice, government regulations, and the societal costs associated with high-speed driving.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the purpose of high-powered cars, arguing that they are unnecessary given the existence of speed limits, particularly in most countries where speeds above 70 mph are not allowed.
  • Others highlight the consumer-driven nature of the automotive market, suggesting that manufacturers produce what consumers desire without imposing restrictions based on speed capabilities.
  • There are claims regarding the social and economic costs of speeding, with some participants advocating for speed limiters as a potential solution to reduce traffic incidents.
  • Some participants argue that limiting car speeds may not effectively address the causes of preventable accidents, suggesting that other factors contribute more significantly to traffic incidents.
  • Disagreements arise over the definition of a "reasonable" car and whether it is appropriate for governments to dictate what consumers should want in vehicles.
  • A few participants challenge the assertion that high-speed driving is the primary cause of accidents, proposing that other factors may be more critical.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus reached on the necessity of high-powered cars or the role of government in regulating vehicle capabilities. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on consumer choice, safety, and regulatory responsibilities.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about consumer behavior and government roles that are not universally accepted. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of safety statistics and the implications of speed limits across different countries.

  • #61
Smattering said:
A combustion engine that does not have enough power to go beyond 70 mph, will most likely have not enough torque for decent acceleration either. Even if you limit the top speed, customers will still prefer cars that can accelerate decently.
A 1000cc car can do 70mph if it is limited, same as 2000cc car, you can have oodles of torque, all you need is some electronics.
 
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  • #62
wolram said:
I would be a liar if i told you x, all i can say is it was at a junction with the foss way, a roman road that seems dead straight but is not quite, all the accidents involved a car coming out of the junction and being hit by the car traveling along the foss way.the drivers coming out of the minor road did not have a chance.

Where abouts on the Fosse?
 
  • #63
cjl said:
OK, so you can't give an exact speed, but how about an estimate? Would you say the vehicles were traveling at greater than or less than 100mph? For reference, this is what a 100mph crash looks like:



Sorry i am not going to get pulled into this one, it all depends on how the driver reacted, he could have been doing 100mph but braked down to 70mph or any thing inbetween.
i can tell you that one of the cars was banana shaped.
 
  • #65
wolram said:
Sorry i am not going to get pulled into this one, it all depends on how the driver reacted, he could have been doing 100mph but braked down to 70mph or any thing inbetween.
i can tell you that one of the cars was banana shaped.

OK, but even if the driver was doing 100mph, your proposal wouldn't really eliminate the problem. Given that the fastest speed limits are around 85mph or so, the lowest you could reasonably set a speed limiter on a car would be about 90mph, and that would not have prevented the crashes you're talking about. How many crashes actually occur at triple digit speeds? I'd bet it's a pretty tiny percentage.
 
  • #66
Smattering said:
A combustion engine that does not have enough power to go beyond 70 mph, will most likely have not enough torque for decent acceleration either. Even if you limit the top speed, customers will still prefer cars that can accelerate decently.
It's not even a matter of torque - acceleration and top speed are both pretty much exclusively dependent on power, assuming a reasonable power curve and appropriate gearing. A car that is unable to exceed 70mph will also have abysmal acceleration, unless it has the aerodynamics of a parachute.
 
  • #67
wolram said:
The Harbury lane junction.

They'll have been doing nowhere near 100mph. I'd be very surprised if they were breaking than NSL.

Dont ever have a side impact.
 
  • #68
xxChrisxx said:
They'll have been doing nowhere near 100mph. I'd be very surprised if they were breaking than NSL.

Dont ever have a side impact.

I am no expert on accident investigation so i would have to refer to those that know better.
 
  • #69
Assuming I'm understanding you right, it's this intersection?

I don't think 200mph cars are really the problem for accidents like that, since as Chris said, there's no way the cars were even doing 100mph through there.
 

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  • #70
wolram said:
A 1000cc car can do 70mph if it is limited, same as 2000cc car, you can have oodles of torque, all you need is some electronics.

I thought your issue is that people buy bigger engines than actually needed.
 
  • #71
wolram said:
I am no expert on accident investigation so i would have to refer to those that know better.

Then why are you trying to propose a solution, if you don't even know what caused the accidents in the first place?
 
  • #72
Smattering said:
I thought your issue is that people buy bigger engines than actually needed.
That is the case what makes you think i meant any thing other?
 
  • #73
wolram said:
I am no expert on accident investigation so i would have to refer to those that know better.

Its rare to get anyone speeding though there. As there is a Truvelo just down from there and its a notoriously crap junction.

In the morning and afternoon you get the mass migration from Gaydon so you are lucky to exceed 50mph.edit: Also everyone shouldn't bash wooly for trying to think about road safety. It's important. Its just crap junctions etc need fixing before stopping cars from going quickly on motorways.
 
  • #74
wolram said:
That is the case what makes you think i meant any thing other?

Because in #63 you said that consumers can still buy big engines, as you only want to limit the top speed. And I guarantee you that consumers *will* continue to buy big engines if you only limit the top speed. The primary reason to buy the big engines is not the top speed, but rather the acceleration.
 
  • #75
cjl said:
Assuming I'm understanding you right, it's this intersection?

I don't think 200mph cars are really the problem for accidents like that, since as Chris said, there's no way the cars were even doing 100mph through there.
That looks like the intersection, i can tell you i was a passenger in a car traveling along the foss at 60mph when a car overtook us and left us in the dust, this was just two miles from he accident site.
 
  • #76
Smattering said:
Because in #63 you said that consumers can still buy big engines, as you only want to limit the top speed. And I guarantee you that consumers *will* continue to buy big engines if you only limit the top speed. The primary reason to buy the big engines is not the top speed, but rather the acceleration.
So you would buy an Audi v10 just to accelerate to what? the nsl is 70 any thing above that is illegal, seems a waste to me.
 
  • #77
wolram said:
So you would buy an Audi v10 just to accelerate to what? the nsl is 70 any thing above that is illegal, seems a waste to me.

I'd love to buy an Audi V10 to accelerate to 140 on the racetrack, which I go to several times a year. Sadly, $150k is a bit out of my budget at the moment.
 
  • #78
wolram said:
So you would buy an Audi v10 just to accelerate to what? the nsl is 70 any thing above that is illegal, seems a waste to me.

A take it youve listened to the new advert. I'd never go anywhere. Just sit on my drive and rev it up and down.

I'd never have to exceed 5mph to get my jollies off from listening to it.

edit: I am a total sucker for a V10. The E60 M5 sounds wonderful too.
 
  • #79
xxChrisxx said:
edit: Also everyone shouldn't bash wooly for trying to think about road safety. It's important. Its just crap junctions etc need fixing before stopping cars from going quickly on motorways.
I don't have a problem thinking about safety, but as someone who enjoys fast cars and racetracks, I don't support speed limiting cars, especially since I haven't really seen any evidence that greatly excessive speed (>90-100mph) has ever been a significant factor in the overall automotive death rate. If every fatal crash involved a high performance sports car going 150mph and the crash rates were high enough, I'd agree that something would need to be done, but that isn't the case. If you're interested in safety, you first need to look at what is causing the majority of fatal crashes, rather than simply going on an anti-speed crusade.
 
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  • #80
wolram said:
So you would buy an Audi v10 just to accelerate to what? the nsl is 70 any thing above that is illegal, seems a waste to me.

As I live in Germany, *I* could actually go to an open limit Autobahn segment and accelerate the hell out of it.
But here in Germany, such engines are extremely rare. Most cars of our luxury carmakers are sold with much smaller engines here. Still they have a top speed above 130 mph of course. Even the 1.4 liter 4 cylinder of my wife reaches 130 mph.
 
  • #81
xxChrisxx said:
A take it youve listened to the new advert. I'd never go anywhere. Just sit on my drive and rev it up and down.

I'd never have to exceed 5mph to get my jollies off from listening to it.

edit: I am a total sucker for a V10. The E60 M5 sounds wonderful too.

Try this for audio.
 
  • #82
xxChrisxx said:
A take it youve listened to the new advert. I'd never go anywhere. Just sit on my drive and rev it up and down.

I'd never have to exceed 5mph to get my jollies off from listening to it.

edit: I am a total sucker for a V10. The E60 M5 sounds wonderful too.

V10s really are something. There's a guy in my local Porsche club who owns a Carrera GT, and the sound that thing makes is just intoxicating.
 
  • #83
Smattering said:
As I live in Germany, *I* could actually go to an open limit Autobahn segment and accelerate the hell out of it.
But here in Germany, such engines are extremely rare. Most cars of our luxury carmakers are sold with much smaller engines here. Still they have a top speed above 130 mph of course. Even the 1.4 liter v4 of my wife reaches 130 mph.
Come on now, i have been on the autobahns, they were full of Mercs and BMWs
 
  • #84
I'm glad we d
wolram said:
Come on now, i have been on the autobahns, they were full of Mercs and BMWs

Every one a 320d, C200 or an A4 tdi. So dull.

Petrol and at least 6 cylinders is the way forward.
 
  • #85
wolram said:
Come on now, i have been on the autobahns, they were full of Mercs and BMWs

Of course there are lots of German cars on German roads. But the average engine is rather small compared with your v10 example.
 
  • #86
wolram said:
Come on now, i have been on the autobahns, they were full of Mercs and BMWs

Mercs and BMWs with 1500-2000cc turbocharged 4 cylinder engines are rather common though. Most of them don't usually come with 500hp V10s.
 
  • #87
Just tell me this, setting aside Germany, how many of you WANT to break the law and drive over speed limits 70ish in most countries?
How many of you want to break the law and travel through towns villages above the 30mph limit?
How many of you do break the law?
 
  • #88
I legally travel 120+mph many times per year on a racetrack. Are you saying I should not be able to do that?
 
  • #89
cjl said:
I legally travel 120+mph many times per year on a racetrack. Are you saying I should not be able to do that?

Now you are being silly, you can go what ever speed you want on a race track, i love F! and follow Mercedes, you did not answer my question by the way.
 
  • #90
It is my bed time now i have to get ready for my operation tomorrow.
All the best to you all keep safe.
 

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