When flowing fluid passes through throttling there is a drop in

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of pressure and temperature changes when a flowing fluid passes through a throttling device. Participants explore the underlying principles, including gas laws, adiabatic processes, and the implications of the Bernoulli equation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a pressure drop occurs due to expansion, referencing gas laws to explain the relationship between pressure and temperature.
  • One participant clarifies that the pressure drop in a throttling process is typically considered an adiabatic and isenthalpic process, leading to specific conditions for ideal and real gases.
  • Another participant questions the cause of expansion during throttling and challenges the application of the Bernoulli equation, noting that pressure does not restore to its original value after exiting the constriction.
  • It is proposed that the increase in velocity due to a decrease in area in the throttling device contributes to the pressure drop, with references to the Continuity equation and energy conservation.
  • Some participants discuss the Joule-Thompson effect, indicating that temperature changes can vary depending on the specific gas and conditions, with the J-T coefficient determining whether the temperature increases or decreases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of expansion and the applicability of the Bernoulli equation in this scenario. There is no consensus on the reasons behind the temperature changes or the behavior of real gases versus ideal gases during throttling.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of real gas behavior compared to ideal gas assumptions, indicating that the discussion involves nuanced conditions and dependencies on specific gas properties.

ahmedbadr
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when flowing fluid passes through throttling there is a drop in pressure and also there's a drop in temperature why?can anyone help??
 
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To help clarify, a pressure drop through a restriction does not do any work, and is normally estimated as an adiabatic process. As such, it is then an isenthalpic process (dH = 0).

If the gas is ideal (ie: PV = mRT) then the expansion (increase in V) will exactly counter the pressure drop (decrease in P) to give you a constant (ie: PV = constant for ideal gas). In the case of a real gas, this isn't always the case. Under typical circumstances, PV is slightly lower after the expansion, so the gas is very slightly cooler. However, there is often some range of values where PV will actually increase slightly after expansion, so the gas can actually increase in temperature. The best way to determine this temperature change is to determine the state downstream of your restriction from a gas properties database knowing the enthalpy upstream and the pressure downstream. These two (enthalpy and pressure) then define the state of the gas downstream and thus the temperature. The effects are generally very small and are due to the non-ideal nature of the gas.
 


Also, for an Ideal Gas, the temperature remains constant.

CS
 


well,u say there is expansion i don't know why there is expansion what causes this expansion??also i can get why pressure decreases in the constriction but according 2 bernoulli equation pressure will restore its value when fluid get out of constriction and back to flow in the same diameter before constriction but that doesn't happen??
 


ahmedbadr said:
well,u say there is expansion i don't know why there is expansion what causes this expansion??also i can get why pressure decreases in the constriction but according 2 bernoulli equation pressure will restore its value when fluid get out of constriction and back to flow in the same diameter before constriction but that doesn't happen??

The pressure drop in a throttling device is caused by the increase in velocity. The velocity is increased due to the decrease in area of the device that the fluid is flowing into and then out of (e.g. throttling valve, porous plug, capillary tube). Take a look at the Bernoulli equation and the Continuity equation to see the relationship between pressure, area, and velocity. You'll see that energy is conserved.

Remember that a throttling process is defined as isenthalpic (h1 = h2).

Enthalpy is defined as:

h = u + Pv

Therefore, since pressure decreases, the specific volume must increase in order for h to remain constant (i.e. there is an expansion - assuming u is constant which is the case for an ideal gas). If u, the internal energy, is not constant, then you will see a temperature change like Q_Goest explained previously.

In order to expand (i.e. increase the specific volume), the fluid must do work. Since the process is adiabatic (and the KE and PE are negligible), the energy to do the work comes from the internal energy of the fluid. This typically results in a decrease in temperature (in real gases). However, depending on the inversion point, the temperature may actually increase. This is typically referred to as the Joule-Thompson effect, and the J-T coefficient determines if the temperature goes up or down. If the J-T coefficient is negative, the temperature will increase. If it is positive, the temperature will decrease. If it is zero, the temperature remains constant (again this is only for an ideal gas).

Hope this helps.

CS
 

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