Where are Heisenberg's Lost Notes?

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    Lost Notes
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the later works of Werner Heisenberg, particularly his non-linear Dirac equation, and the perception of Heisenberg's contributions as potentially misguided or "crank" in nature. Participants explore the implications of Gell-Mann's comments and seek to understand the key problems associated with Heisenberg's theories, as well as the context of his collaboration with Wolfgang Pauli.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Exploratory, Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant mentions that Gell-Mann referred to Heisenberg as becoming a crank in his later years, expressing a desire to uncover any valuable insights within what they perceive as "crackpottery."
  • Another participant identifies Heisenberg's non-linear Dirac equation as the focus of Gell-Mann's comments, suggesting that the lack of contemporary discussion around it may indicate its shortcomings.
  • A participant questions the key problems in Heisenberg's theory and expresses financial constraints that prevent them from accessing the review article.
  • Further contributions highlight that Heisenberg's work has been cited in various articles, challenging the notion that it is disregarded, and listing several references that engage with his ideas.
  • Another participant notes Heisenberg's collaboration with Wolfgang Pauli, mentioning that Pauli presented their ambitious theory in the USA but faced objections that led to his embarrassment and eventual withdrawal from research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the value and relevance of Heisenberg's later work, with some suggesting it is overlooked while others imply it is not taken seriously. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity and impact of Heisenberg's theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific articles and theories without reaching a consensus on their significance or correctness. There are indications of unresolved issues related to the interpretation of Heisenberg's work and its reception in the scientific community.

Lamarr
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i was reading a Murray Gell Mann interview and he mentioned that Heisenberg became a crank in his later years.

I've tried very hard but I cannot find what Heisenberg was working on. My motivation is, there may be some bits of genius among that pile of crackpottery.
 
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I guess Gell-Mann is referring to Heisenberg's non-linear Dirac equation. From the fact that nobody talks about this nowadays anymore, you can reach your own conclusions ;-). You find a review by Heisenberg himself in

W. Heisenberg, Rev. Mod. Phys. 29, 269 (1957)
http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/RevModPhys.29.269
 
Well, what's the key problem in his theory?

Also, I'm currently broke, so I can't read the review.
 
vanhees71 said:
I guess Gell-Mann is referring to Heisenberg's non-linear Dirac equation. From the fact that nobody talks about this nowadays anymore, you can reach your own conclusions ;-). You find a review by Heisenberg himself in

W. Heisenberg, Rev. Mod. Phys. 29, 269 (1957)
http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/RevModPhys.29.269
Thanks for the reference!
It looks however as if you call a number of people "nobody":

"96 citing articles found:

1.
Nonlinear Spinor Fields and Its Role in Cosmology
Bijan Saha
International Journal of Theoretical Physics , (2012)

2.
Matter-gravity couplings and Lorentz violation
V. Alan Kostelecký and Jay D. Tasson
Phys. Rev. D 83, 016013 (2011)

3.
Four-fermion interaction from torsion as dark energy
Nikodem J. Popławski
General Relativity and Gravitation , (2011)

4.
Reproducing gravity through spinor fields
M. Novello, M. Borba
Gravitation and Cosmology 17, 224 (2011)

5.
Lorentz violation with an antisymmetric tensor
Brett Altschul, Quentin G. Bailey, and V. Alan Kostelecký
Phys. Rev. D 81, 065028 (2010)

6.
Approximate gauge symmetry of composite vector bosons
Mahiko Suzuki
Phys. Rev. D 82, 045026 (2010)

7.
Derivation of Nonlinear Schrödinger Equation
Xiang-Yao Wu, Bai-Jun Zhang, Xiao-Jing Liu, Li Xiao, Yi-Heng Wu, Yan Wang, Qing-Cai Wang, Shuang Cheng
International Journal of Theoretical Physics , (2010)

[..]

17.
Constructing Dirac linear fermions in terms of non-linear Heisenberg spinors
M. Novello
EPL (Europhysics Letters) 80, 41001 (2007) "
 
Lamarr said:
Well, what's the key problem in his theory?

Also, I'm currently broke, so I can't read the review.

I have read that H was working with Wolfgang Pauli on something ambitious in their later years. Pauli was quite excited about it. P went to the USA and presented the theory but could not answer the objections. P gave up on it and seems to have been quite embarrassed by the whole thing, as he prided himself on having "never believed in anything that was wrong." P gave up research after that.
 

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