Where do Babies Come From? A Scientific Explanation for Curious Kids

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the appropriateness of father-daughter "date nights" and similar social interactions. Participants express a range of feelings about the implications of such events, touching on familial affection, societal perceptions, and personal experiences related to parental relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants find father-daughter dances and dates to be odd or creepy, questioning the appropriateness of the term "date" in this context.
  • Others argue that such events promote familial interaction and bonding, viewing them as positive experiences.
  • A few participants express discomfort based on personal experiences or stories of abuse, suggesting that these events can evoke negative associations.
  • Some participants emphasize that affection between parents and children is natural and should not be viewed suspiciously unless inappropriate behavior is evident.
  • There is a discussion about the cultural implications of the term "date," with some suggesting it can be interpreted more broadly than romantic connotations.
  • Concerns are raised about societal narratives surrounding father-daughter relationships, particularly in light of media portrayals of inappropriate conduct.
  • Some participants share their own positive memories of spending time with their parents, contrasting with those who have negative experiences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are multiple competing views regarding the appropriateness and implications of father-daughter date nights. Some find them acceptable and beneficial, while others feel uncomfortable and raise concerns about potential misinterpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference personal experiences and societal narratives that influence their perspectives, highlighting the complexity of familial relationships and the varying interpretations of social interactions.

  • #61
DaveC426913 said:
How do you think it becomes plainly obvious?

Magic? No, I'm kidding; it becomes plainly obvious by observation, just like how nobody needs to teach a grade 8 student what it's like to be in grade 8: it's obvious by observation.

Some people are not content with leaving their child's sexual education to the schoolyard and the TV.

The schoolyard and the TV are much better teachers when it comes to sexual education. Parents, like the Chinese parents I was talking about earlier, may have little idea what modern culture is like or what's considered sexually appropriate/inappropriate by society. What better way to learn about romance than to see it in action?
 
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  • #62
DaveC426913 said:
This is naive.

How do you think it becomes plainly obvious? Some people are not content with leaving their child's sexual education to the schoolyard and the TV.
Most children learn from peers. Schools have sex edcuation, so even if a parent can't bring themselves to having "talks" with their kids, they will have a pretty good idea of what is acceptable, unless they are home schooled and isolated.
 
  • #63
Char. Limit said:
Bravery? You'd need a tower of Babel full of bravery to get me to ask my dad where I can find good porn. Also, afterwards, you'd have to find me a new place to live.

Sometimes, it's not cowardice that prevents teenagers from asking these questions. It's intelligence.

Exactly what I meant.
 
  • #64
DaveC426913 said:
This is naive.

How do you think it becomes plainly obvious? Some people are not content with leaving their child's sexual education to the schoolyard and the TV.

i have to agree. if anything, the expectations can be quite different for each
 
  • #65
ideasrule said:
...it becomes plainly obvious by observation, just like how nobody needs to teach a grade 8 student what it's like to be in grade 8: it's obvious by observation.
You've got to be kidding.

We're talking about going on dates here. What are they going to do? Shadow a couple and record their conversations? Their dancing skills? Watch how they order their food and eat it? Keep a checklist for ensuring they powder their nose instead of picking it?

Look, I'm not saying it cannot be done by observation, what I'm saying is: clearly this website appeals to a group of people who are not satisfied with what happens when kids learn their dating behaviour by observing their peers.

ideasrule said:
The schoolyard and the TV are much better teachers when it comes to sexual education. Parents, like the Chinese parents I was talking about earlier, may have little idea what modern culture is like or what's considered sexually appropriate/inappropriate by society. What better way to learn about romance than to see it in action?
I've got to be clear here. You and I may feel that this is a good way for our children to get their sexual education. But once you grant that there are people who - justifiably - have decided that society at-large is not the best teacher, then the responsibility rightfully falls to the parents.


Evo said:
Most children learn from peers. Schools have sex edcuation, so even if a parent can't bring themselves to having "talks" with their kids, they will have a pretty good idea of what is acceptable, unless they are home schooled and isolated.
Because some or even most parents find that acceptable does not mean they all must.

Again, it is not our place to decide for them that society should educate their kids.
 
  • #66
DaveC426913 said:
You've got to be kidding.
Look, I'm not saying it cannot be done by observation, what I'm saying is: clearly this website appeals to a group of people who are not satisfied with what happens when kids learn their dating behaviour by observing their peers.
These are babies, aged 4-10. How much dating do they do?

I don't think interacting with a father figure at this point (father figure being a source of authority) would have anything to do with romantic dating. I can see it being harmful. A toddler being thrown into a situation that is related to stirring feelings of sex being associated with their father? EEEWWWWWW
 
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  • #67
Evo said:
These are babies, aged 4-10. How much dating do they do?

Well, clearly it is a pre-cursor. How much algebra do they use at that age, yet they still learn it in school.

And if you wait till >10, it's likely too late. Because of the whole peer thing.
 
  • #68
You have to teach the kids things before it becomes awkward to do so. Getting the sex talk at 8 years old was a lot easier then at 14.
 
  • #69
DaveC426913 said:
OK but still, parents are supposed to walk their children through rights of passage. Isn't it better that a young girl learn under controlled circumstances what going out in public with a boy is all about?

It seems to me you are approaching it from the idea that it is a romantic date, as opposed to a learning opportunity.

I'm not saying this is a great way to do it, I'm saying I'd give it the benefit of the doubt.


'course, I did ont realize the age limits 4-10.

Huh. Okay then. I'll go with believing that 4 is a little bit young to be indoctrinating a girl into the the subtleties of dating. I'll even go so far as saying that 10 is too young.

I'm with Evo in that, Dave, it's not us who is approaching it from the idea of it being a romantic date, it's the wording associated with the event. We didn't write the ad copy. The ad/article presents it as a romantic date.

One last. I can teach kids about sex and love and responsibility and respect and how those things are all tied together without walking them through it personally before they get involved with some relative stranger with raging hormones. I don't have to do it with a child to give them an outline and understanding of how it should go.
 
  • #70
MotoH said:
Getting the sex talk at 8 years old was a lot easier then at 14.
You got it twice? What? Like a refresher?
 
  • #71
GeorginaS said:
I can teach kids about sex and love and responsibility and respect and how those things are all tied together without walking them through it personally
No, you can instruct. That's intellectual. What about the actual guidance / hand-holding part of learning?
 
  • #72
MotoH said:
You have to teach the kids things before it becomes awkward to do so. Getting the sex talk at 8 years old was a lot easier then at 14.

Okay, granted, I don't have children of my own, so maybe it's more difficult to have those conversations with your own kids because -- perhaps -- you're not comfortable perceiving them as sexual beings. Which, I totally understand that. For me, though, I don't have the least bit of problem discussing the mechanics of sex or relationships in age-appropriate ways with kids. I'd have no more problem with an 8 year-old than 14. And those are two different discussions, anyway, and you'd likely need to have both.
 
  • #73
DaveC426913 said:
You got it twice? What? Like a refresher?

The 14 one was more of a "don't get a girl pregnant or you'll end up paying for it" and the all important "if she is needy and you dump her, she will say you either raped her, or her child is yours."

Which are words to live by in my opinion.
 
  • #74
DaveC426913 said:
No, you can instruct. That's intellectual. What about the actual guidance / hand-holding part of learning?

So, are you then suggesting that parents should hand-hold children through dates and dating? That means waiting until they're an appropriate age to date. Because, you know, they already know how to behave around their parents in public places, so you'd have to be role-playing for it to have any use at all and then you've wandered squarely back in squick territory.
 
  • #75
MotoH said:
The 14 one was more of a "don't get a girl pregnant or you'll end up paying for it" and the all important "if she is needy and you dump her, she will say you either raped her, or her child is yours."

Which are words to live by in my opinion.

Good thing they invented paternity testing, huh? That way all you guys won't get stuck with all of those needy girls out there who blame the wrong fellow for her circumstances.
 
  • #76
I should state for the record that I am playing Devil's Advocate.

I do not presonally ascribe to this (especially since I have boys), but I do grant that these people have a valid case to doing this, and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Mostly because - if and when I decide to take responsbility for my life (or my family's lives) in some fashion - it would sicken me if peers of mine beat me with 'it works for us, it should work for everyone!'
 
  • #77
GeorginaS said:
...I don't have the least bit of problem discussing the mechanics of sex or relationships in age-appropriate ways with kids...
By whose accounting? Yours? Or the parents of the kids?
 
  • #78
You may not have a problem talking about sex, but the people you are talking to most likely will, especially if they are a young teenager.
 
  • #79
My daughter and I never went out on a date, and I turned out all right.
 
  • #80
GeorginaS said:
So, are you then suggesting that parents should hand-hold children through dates and dating? That means waiting until they're an appropriate age to date.
If the parents want their child to be safely able to ride around the block once they're old enough to do so, they have every right to be holding the sissy bar until the kid can ride on his own. Waiting until the kid is old enough to go around block and then trying to teach him is a little late, don't you think?

GeorginaS said:
Because, you know, they already know how to behave around their parents in public places...
Ah, but do they know how to behave when they are not with their parents (or at least practicing as if they weren't)?

Different set of rules.

"Little Annie, do you think it might be time to call it an evening?"
is very different from:
"We are going home now."
 
  • #81
Again, it's the wording that is a really bad idea. That a father figure and small female child should have a "couple on a date" night is just sick. We're not talking about what went on, it's the image this discription brings about. It's wrong. What's wrong with calling it "father/daughter night"? "Daddy Daughter Date Night" with emphasis on being a "couple"?? At the age of 4-10? What is this telling this child?
It's ok to think of daddy as a romantic partner?
 
  • #82
MotoH said:
You may not have a problem talking about sex, but the people you are talking to most likely will, especially if they are a young teenager.

I'm more concerned about whether that 8-year-old child's parents thought it was OK for her to be talking with her about sex.
 
  • #83
DaveC426913 said:
If the parents want their child to be safely able to ride around the block once they're old enough to do so, they have every right to be holding the sissy bar until the kid can ride on his own. Waiting until the kid is old enough to go around block and then trying to teach him is a little late, don't you think?

That's an inane comparison to dating. You aren't riding on the bike on the same seat with the child, are you? Further, you don't sit a four-year-old on a ten speed (do they even make those any more?) when she should still be on a little kid's bike, maybe even with training wheels on it.


DaveC426913 said:
Ah, but do they know how to behave when they are not with their parents (or at least practicing as if they weren't)?

Did you just corner yourself, here? They know full well they are out with their parents, so they are going to behave as they know they should. If they're pretending that their parent is in fact a "date" -- as in a romantic pairing -- then we're right back at squickhood.

And again, I go back to what Evo reiterated about the wording of the ad for the function, which you aren't addressing at all, Dave.

And I'll add, yet again, that 4 - 10 is a wee bit young to be thinking about/addressing how to behave in public with a member of the opposite sex, even for hands-on/teaching opportunity purposes.
 
  • #84
DaveC426913 said:
I'm more concerned about whether that 8-year-old child's parents thought it was OK for her to be talking with her about sex.

Have you never had someone else's kid corner you with questions about life and stuff? Weirdly, people trust me with their kids -- they even will them to me -- so I spend time with other people's children in my care. Kids talk; they ask questions about stuff. I've had some fascinating discussions about ethics with kids. And yes, sometimes the answer is, "I think you should talk to your mom about that."
 
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  • #85
GeorginaS said:
That's an inane comparison to dating. You aren't riding on the bike on the same seat with the child, are you? Further, you don't sit a four-year-old on a ten speed (do they even make those any more?) when she should still be on a little kid's bike, maybe even with training wheels on it.
I just can't believe how judgemental this all is.

Surely the default applies. Responsible people have the right to act how they think best.

Unless you think this site is actually promoting pedophilia, surely you're knee-jerking here.

GeorginaS said:
Did you just corner yourself, here? They know full well they are out with their parents, so they are going to behave as they know they should.
It's not an exam. They're not adversaries! You teach your child to make her bed by doing it with her. You don't assume that the moment you turn you back they'll rebel.


GeorginaS said:
And I'll add, yet again, that 4 - 10 is a wee bit young to be thinking about/addressing how to behave in public with a member of the opposite sex, even for hands-on/teaching opportunity purposes.
I grant that. I also grant that people believe in God even though I don't - and that's OK..
 
  • #86
GeorginaS said:
Have you never had someone else's kid corner you with questions about life and stuff? Weirdly, people trust me with their kids -- they even will them to me -- so I spend time with other people's children in my care. Kids talk they ask questions about stuff. I've had some fascinating discussions about ethics with kids. And yes, sometimes the answer is, "I think you should talk to your mom about that."

OK, well I did say I would be concerned, not that I actually am concerned. :wink:
 
  • #87
DaveC426913 said:
Unless you think this site is actually promoting pedophilia, surely you're knee-jerking here.

I didn't suggest that either. I said -- and Evo said -- their wording is squicky because that what it sounds like they're promoting. Not that we believe it or think that, but they have terrible copy writers, because that's what it sounds like.

P.S. 4 - 10 is still too young to think/talk/play-act dating. Have a tea party, yes. Date, no.


DaveC426913 said:
It's not an exam. They're not adversaries! You teach your child to make her bed by doing it with her. You don't assume that the moment you turn you back they'll rebel.

The range of options available in behaviour choices not related to dating your parents in public places is not limited to rebelling.
 
  • #88
ideasrule said:
That's a big "if". Have you asked your daughter whether she would ever go to the "date night" discussed in this thread? I don't know anything about your family or where you live, but I feel 99% certain the answer will be "no".

That's a big "it depends" If we're talking about now, you're probably right. My daughter at 8 or 9.. might not be such a big deal It's all about context. If I'm at a wedding and I dance with my daughter, it's perfectly acceptable. If her and I go out to a movie or to eat no one calls me a child molester, but if I go to a daddy daughter dance I'm raping my child. I think if they just removed the word "date" from the Ad, this thread wouldn't even exist. If the organizers of this even are a bit dense, we can't go on the assumption that this event is a get together for pedophiles, and I think that's the inferred assumption here.

And let's face it, a lot of little girls do go through that competition phase with mommy around this age, so I could see where a girl around 5-10 who was close with her dad wouldn't have too big of a problem with this, especially if she was competing with mommy or say, a sibling for her dad's attention.

Is that always the case? No it depends on the relationship the dad and daughter have, it depends on how close the family as a whole is. It depends on how old the daughter is, and it depends on how well adjusted she is psychologically.

But I think it's safe to assume the intent here was purely innocent, in any case.
 
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  • #89
GeorginaS said:
I didn't suggest that either. I said -- and Evo said -- their wording is squicky because that what it sounds like they're promoting. Not that we believe it or think that, but they have terrible copy writers, because that's what it sounds like.

P.S. 4 - 10 is still too young to think/talk/play-act dating. Have a tea party, yes. Date, no.


I think that the wording is just an easy focal point. It brings to the fore the uncomfortable undertones that some of us perceive in 'dressing up pretty to go out dancing with daddy' which may be more easily ignored if it weren't being referred to as a 'couple' on a 'date'.


And I do not think that the point of the exercise has much to do with 'date training' as Dave suggests. I think it is only meant to promote closer father and daughter relationships. Calling it a 'date' and the two a 'couple' I believe is just meant to be cute.
 
  • #90
TheStatutoryApe said:
And I do not think that the point of the exercise has much to do with 'date training' as Dave suggests. I think it is only meant to promote closer father and daughter relationships. Calling it a 'date' and the two a 'couple' I believe is just meant to be cute.

This is sort of more where I was going. I don't think its primary function is date-training.