Where Do Photons Come From and How Do They Embrace Wave-Particle Duality?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins of photons, their emission processes, and the concept of wave-particle duality. Participants explore various theories and interpretations related to the creation of photons, particularly in the context of atomic transitions and electromagnetic radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the source of photons when they are emitted, pondering whether they are created from a specific process or released from within an object.
  • One participant suggests that photons are a "clump of energy" that appears due to conservation of energy, drawing an analogy to kinetic energy when a ball is released.
  • Another participant asserts that the creation of photons depends on the specific process, particularly highlighting atomic de-excitation as a source of light.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that photons may be created when light reflects off an object.
  • One participant connects the emission of light to classical principles, suggesting that accelerated charges emit radiation, while also noting that quantum electrodynamics (QED) can describe energy transitions and photon production.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that classical electromagnetism can coherently explain light emission, emphasizing the role of selection rules in photon emission related to angular momentum changes.
  • There is a discussion about the misconception of photons being thought of as particles, with one participant emphasizing that they should be viewed as "bundles of energy" that carry energy in both particle and wave contexts.
  • Some participants reiterate the dual nature of photons, affirming that they exhibit both particle and wave properties as described by quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the origins and nature of photons, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree on aspects of quantum mechanics and the duality of photons, while others contest the applicability of classical theories to photon emission.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions related to energy transitions, angular momentum, and the definitions of photons, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

Hooloovoo
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When a photon is emitted, where did it come from? Did something cause it to be created and then emitted, or was it inside something and then released? How's it work?
 
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Hooloovoo said:
When a photon is emitted, where did it come from? Did something cause it to be created and then emitted, or was it inside something and then released? How's it work?

You could ask the same question this way: when kinetic energy appear when you let go of a ball, where did it come from?

A photon is simply a clump of energy (with spin of 1). So it appears, naively, out of conservation of energy.

Zz.
 
Hooloovoo said:
When a photon is emitted, where did it come from? Did something cause it to be created and then emitted, or was it inside something and then released? How's it work?
A photon is a particle that is actually created. How its created will depend on the particular process.

Pete
 
Hooloovoo said:
When a photon is emitted, where did it come from? Did something cause it to be created and then emitted, or was it inside something and then released? How's it work?

Perhaps when light (invisible and with no mass) reflects off of an object a photon(s) is (are) created.
 
In my opinion light, coming from atomic de-excitation must come from a physical principle very closely related to that one which tells us that accelerated charge emitts radiation.
Perhaps, in between two stable orbits, the "collapse" dynamics are very much the same as the one predicted by classical theory.

Best Wishes

DaTario
 
DaTario said:
In my opinion light, coming from atomic de-excitation must come from a physical principle very closely related to that one which tells us that accelerated charge emitts radiation.
Perhaps, in between two stable orbits, the "collapse" dynamics are very much the same as the one predicted by classical theory.

I don't quite agree to that. If you say that QED can describe both energy transition and charge acceleration in the production of photons, I agree. But if you claim that classical E&M theory can make a coherent explanation for light emission in energy transition, I haven't seen it.

Remember that in an energy transition in an atom to emit photons, it isn't just a change in the principle quantum number "n" that produces an energy change. There is also a selection rule that requires a change of +- 1 in the orbital angular momentum. This accounts for the spin 1 that photons have and preserves conservation laws in a single transition.

Zz.
 
Dear Zz,

I didn't say "classical E&M theory can make a coherent explanation for light emission in energy transition" but instead I said that, in my opinion, the photon's structure must have something of what is involved in the classical E&M explanation. Spin stuff is a nice argument of yours, and force me to take back my words and try another way to express my ideas.

If the electromagnetic field can be thinked of as a depositary of angular momentum which came from the electronic-atomic decay you may agree with me that it is possible to understand it in terms of the forces that photon will make upon another charged entities located elsewhere in the universe.

Do you agree with me in this point ?
 
Its a common misconception of imagining a photon to something like a particle , or a point mass , a photon is infact a 'bundle-of-energy' , When you think about n number of photons striking a surface , think about much energy striking the surface.Photons represent the particle nature of light, which carry the energy in paryicle-sense , analogous to wave carrying the wave-energy in wave-nature sense.

BJ
 
but what if you thing of light as a wave, the thwory states that a photon is both a particle and a wave
 
  • #10
Hmmm... this is a nearly 6-year old thread.
 
  • #11
nickthrop101 said:
but what if you thing of light as a wave, the thwory states that a photon is both a particle and a wave

Photons have both particle and wavelike properties which are explained by Quantum Mechanics.
 

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