Where do the extra particles go

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of particles, specifically electrons and silver atoms, as they pass through multiple Stern-Gerlach (SG) detectors. Participants explore the implications of measuring particles in different directions and the fate of those that do not hit the final detector, including considerations of kinetic energy and charge accumulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what happens to the particles that do not hit the last detector, pondering whether they stop and fall due to gravity or take a different path.
  • There is a concern about charge buildup in the case of electrons and whether silver atoms need to be scraped off the insides of the device after each run.
  • Participants discuss the orientation of the SG magnets and how particles can be measured in the X, Y, and Z directions, raising questions about the mechanics of particle entry into the system.
  • One participant asserts that gravity is not a factor, suggesting that magnetic fields play a role instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the fate of the particles that do not reach the detector, and there is no consensus on the mechanisms involved in their behavior or the implications of multiple measurements.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the assumptions regarding the behavior of particles in magnetic fields versus gravitational effects, nor the specifics of how particles interact with the SG apparatus during measurements.

edguy99
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Web sites such as http://www.kcvs.ca/martin/phys/phys243/labs/sglab/stern_gerlach.html" explain the effect of a particle going through multiple SG detectors. For example:
sgsmall.gif


If electrons going in the y direction are first measured in the z direction, then the x direction and then again in the z direction, they fail to hit the detector.

Does anyone know what happens to the extra particles that do not hit the last detector? The site speaks of loss of "kinetic energy", but what happens to the particle? Do they simply stop and fall due to gravity? Do they take a hard right or left to miss the detector?

In the case of electrons, there must be substantial charge building up somewhere and in the case of silver atoms, do you scrape them off the insides of the device after each run?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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edguy99 said:
Web sites such as http://www.kcvs.ca/martin/phys/phys243/labs/sglab/stern_gerlach.html" explain the effect of a particle going through multiple SG detectors. For example:
sgsmall.gif


If electrons going in the y direction are first measured in the z direction, then the x direction and then again in the z direction, they fail to hit the detector.

Does anyone know what happens to the extra particles that do not hit the last detector? The site speaks of loss of "kinetic energy", but what happens to the particle? Do they simply stop and fall due to gravity? Do they take a hard right or left to miss the detector?

In the case of electrons, there must be substantial charge building up somewhere and in the case of silver atoms, do you scrape them off the insides of the device after each run?

How is it possible to put particles through an X, Y AND Z? If a Z magnet is oriented vertically then a Y is oriented horizontally and then an X is oriented along the path of travel... How would the particles "get in"?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Perhaps you want to link to the full-sized image, rather than the thumb.
 
maverick_starstrider said:
How is it possible to put particles through an X, Y AND Z? If a Z magnet is oriented vertically then a Y is oriented horizontally and then an X is oriented along the path of travel... How would the particles "get in"?

Full size picture http://www.animatedphysics.com/sterngerlachmachine.gif" . The particle is generated on the left side and comes out with its kinetic energy directly pointed in the Y direction. The SG machine first measures the Z direction causing some particles to go up and some down by tiny amounts (in the mm). Of all the particles that go up, they measure in the X direction and sure enough, this causes half the particles to move slightly towards you and half the particles to move slightly away from you.

The weird thing is this: if you measure again in the Z direction, all the particles stop.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gravity? No. Magnetic field, yes.
 

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