I Which does more work: gravitation or electromagnetism?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion compares the work done by gravitational and electromagnetic forces, highlighting that while gravitational attraction between small masses is negligible, it becomes significant with larger masses like Earth. The energy generated by a neodymium magnet's attraction to iron is noted to be substantial, but questions arise about the feasibility of achieving specific energy outputs, such as 3.6 million joules. Calculations suggest that the escape energy for a 1 kg mass in an Earth-like gravitational field could exceed this figure, indicating that gravitational forces can produce considerable energy under certain conditions. The conversation also emphasizes the importance of clarity in discussing energy generation, as the term "generate" may imply a misunderstanding of energy conservation principles. Overall, the thread underscores the complexities of comparing gravitational and electromagnetic work.
Hir
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1: There is a universal gravitational force between two 1 kg iron balls, and the energy generated by their mutual attraction is so small that it is difficult to observe; there is also an attractive force between a 1 kg neodymium magnet and 1 kg of iron, but the energy generated by their attraction is very large.
2: Let one of the two iron balls become as big as the earth, as long as the other iron ball is far enough, because the attraction formed by gravity can produce a lot of energy; For comparison, neodymium magnets are also made as large as Earth, and the magnetic induction intensity remains unchanged.

Question 1: Due to the increase of the neodymium magnet and the increase of the working distance, can the energy generated by attracting 1 kg of iron ball reach 3.6*10^6 joules.
Question 2: Without increasing the mass of the iron ball, how much energy can be generated by using the magnet with the best magnetism and the largest volume to attract the iron ball.
 
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Hir said:
1: There is a universal gravitational force between two 1 kg iron balls, and the energy generated by their mutual attraction is so small that it is difficult to observe; there is also an attractive force between a 1 kg neodymium magnet and 1 kg of iron, but the energy generated by their attraction is very large.
2: Let one of the two iron balls become as big as the earth, as long as the other iron ball is far enough, because the attraction formed by gravity can produce a lot of energy; For comparison, neodymium magnets are also made as large as Earth, and the magnetic induction intensity remains unchanged.

Question 1: Due to the increase of the neodymium magnet and the increase of the working distance, can the energy generated by attracting 1 kg of iron ball reach 3.6*10^6 joules.
Question 2: Without increasing the mass of the iron ball, how much energy can be generated by using the magnet with the best magnetism and the largest volume to attract the iron ball.
These are detailed questions that require calculations. Can you at least show your attempt to set up the math and find the answers? (After all, this forum is not Physics GPT!)
 
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Hir said:
Question 1: Due to the increase of the neodymium magnet and the increase of the working distance, can the energy generated by attracting 1 kg of iron ball reach 3.6*10^6 joules.
You have seemingly pulled the figure of ##3.6 \times 10^6## joules from thin air. Would this, perhaps, be the escape energy of one kg ball in the gravitational field of the Earth from a starting radius of 6000 km?

No. I get 60 megajoules by two different heuristics: ##PE=-mgr## for ##m## = 1 kg, ##g## = 9.8 m/s^2 and ##r## = 6000 km. or ##KE = \frac{1}{2}mv^2## for ##m## = 1 kg, ##v## = 11.2 km/s.

One can get close to that 11.2 km/s (from Google) with another heuristic -- 40,000 km circumference (by the original definition of the meter) and a low earth orbital period of about 90 minutes (from schoolboy memory). That yields an orbital speed of some 7 km/s. Multiply by ##\sqrt{2}## to get an escape velocity of about 11 km/s.

The escape energy of a 1 kg ball in the gravitational field of an Earth-sized blob of iron would be at least 42% higher than this since iron under atmospheric pressure is already about 42% more dense than the actual earth. A little Googling suggests that an Earth-sized iron blob would be more like double the density of our actual Earth. Iron compresses a fair bit under the relevant pressures.

I am also concerned by the phrase "energy can be generated". Nothing here is generating energy.

Edit: Oh. ##3.6 \times 10^6## joules is 1 kwh. Perhaps this is some generating scheme after all.
 
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Calculation of work done by gravity is very simple, The approximate range can be calculated assuming the Earth is stationary; Due to educational cognition, it is not clear whether making a magnet as big as the Earth can increase the work of magnetism, although this is only a hypothesis.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
I am also concerned by the phrase "energy can be generated". Nothing here is generating energy.

Edit: Oh. ##3.6 \times 10^6## joules is 1 kwh. Perhaps this is some generating scheme after all.
English is not my native language, and the way of communication is usually through the translation tools.
 
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