Who Is the Most Underrated Rock Drummer?

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To be considered underrated, a musician must be highly skilled, have significant exposure through hit records and tours, yet remain largely unrecognized. The discussion highlights drummer Albert Bouchard from Blue Oyster Cult, noted for his subtlety and originality, as an example of this phenomenon. Comparisons are made with other drummers like Ian Paice, who, despite his talent and exposure, is often overshadowed by more celebrated drummers like Neil Peart and John Bonham. The conversation also touches on the varying perceptions of drummers such as Ringo Starr, who, despite his popularity, is sometimes dismissed in discussions about technical skill. The concept of "underratedness" is explored through various formulas that consider musical ability, record sales, and levels of praise, suggesting that even highly skilled musicians can be overlooked in favor of more famous counterparts. Overall, the thread emphasizes the complexity of recognition in the music industry and the subjective nature of what defines an underrated artist.
  • #31
Yes the wrecking crew were legend and part of musical history but was Hal Baine a great drummer? Technically?
He was a great musician sure, played on some my favourite songs of all time but then again so did Ringo, Ola Brunkert, Robert Siebenberg and Nigel Olsson.
 
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  • #32
Hornbein said:
How about this.



Strong and solid and supportive, no empty flash, the power of simplicity, but I don't get what's special.

I used to hang out online with professional recording engineers. Hundreds of them. They had stories about "when I did the mix for Michael Jackson's Billy Jean" and stuff like that. They were completely stuck in the past. Everything new was of no interest. I gave this cover a try. They said Gretchen was pretty good but of course didn't hold a candle with the original. Good grief. After that I gave up. It was just impossible.

That Rolling Stone list is pretty good. All sorts of guys I'd never heard of, thusly destroying their "underrated" status. So how about the best drummer to not make the list? I'd go with Clive Bunker late of Jethro Tull. Great tone. And Glenn Cornick would have a real shot at underrated ebassist. Tull though didn't get really popular until these guys were replaced by a power-of-simplicity rhythm section. C'est la rock and roll vis.


Forget the drums, Gretchen Wilson! Wow! what an amazing voice!? Ann Wilson's vocals on those early Heart albums are something else but that lady gave a great rendition. Brilliant.

The Tull track reminded me of of Manic Depression by Hendrix. Clive Bunker and Mitch Mitchell were great drummers. I think they would get a decent underrated score.

 
  • #33
Best drummer not on the Top 100 list? So we're looking for the 101st best drummer now?
 
  • #34
Vanadium 50 said:
Best drummer not on the Top 100 list? So we're looking for the 101st best drummer now?
The lists I posted were a reference to how low Ian Paice seem to place compared to technically inferior drummers like Ringo, Keith Moon, Charlie Watts and Ginger Baker.
EDIT: Ok I just read Hornbein's comment about not making the list. Low placing or not making the list would illustrate underratedness (that list anyway there must be lots of others)
Clive Bunker was a much better drummer than many of the high placing "famous" guys.
 
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  • #35
This is fun I admit it.
Drums, gosh.
Of all the threads I read on pf it is very very rare I come across a thread where I think, "I really know the nuts and bolts to this!"
 
  • #36
Earl Palmer deserves some attention. Perhaps the 2nd best studio drummer ever; the other mainstay of the wrecking crew. Described online as "the inventor of the rock and roll beat" and "the most recorded drummer of all time". From Little Richard to Elvis Costello he played with damn near everyone at some time.
 
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  • #37
DaveE said:
Earl Palmer deserves some attention. Perhaps the 2nd best studio drummer ever; the other mainstay of the wrecking crew. Described online as "the inventor of the rock and roll beat" and "the most recorded drummer of all time". From Little Richard to Elvis Costello he played with damn near everyone at some time.
Ian Paice is a huge fan. First name on his favourite drummer influence list.

 
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  • #38
Frabjous said:
While this song is known for the guitar, I have always loved the drums on it.


Great guitar player, I don't know the band.
 
  • #39
Hornbein said:
To be underrated you have to
1) be really good
2) have had lots of exposure, playing on hit records and touring and such
3) nevertheless go unnoticed

I've been making a fancy video with Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear The Reaper. Hearing it many times I gradually focused on drummer Albert Bouchard. Such understated subtlety, taste, and originality.
Animal.
That Muppet literally said he would choose drumming over food and has been in some legendary battles.
Hands down, underrated.
 
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  • #40
MotherMayhem said:
Animal.
That Muppet literally said he would choose drumming over food and has been in some legendary battles.
Hands down, underrated.
Ronnie Verrell. I loved his battle with Buddy Rich, possibly my introduction to him.
 
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  • #41
Bill ward

 
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  • #42
pinball1970 said:
Ronnie Verrell. I loved his battle with Buddy Rich, possibly my introduction to him.
You can't take the magic away from the Muppet.
We know who it was behind that wild fluffy beast, and he was sensational!
But for the sake of this post, my answer MUST have him go under the name 'Animal' 🤣
One does not simply wipe the makeup off 'Kiss' or take the masks off 'Slipknot', (Rip Joey) or have the animation be removed from 'The Gorillaz'..
THIS is what makes him underrated and so magnificent. He wasn't Animal for his own personal glory. Much like Animal himself, he just wanted to drum, and drum he did!
He found his spirit Muppet and he loved every minute of it.
 
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  • #43
BWV said:
Bill ward
My friend gives another vote for Bill Ward. He's an ardent Sabbath fan.
 
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  • #44
PeroK said:
My friend gives another vote for Bill Ward. He's an ardent Sabbath fan.
Fair enough. Sold a stack of records but is not mentioned much with the great drummers of the 70s.
 
  • #45
Hornbein said:
To be underrated you have to
1) be really good
2) have had lots of exposure, playing on hit records and touring and such
3) nevertheless go unnoticed

I've been making a fancy video with Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear The Reaper. Hearing it many times I gradually focused on drummer Albert Bouchard. Such understated subtlety, taste, and originality.
Albert Bouchard is my favorite drummer by far, with the keyword being originality, not to discount the others. No other drummer played something that was musical like he did, and he always found something that not only fit with the tone of the song, but enhanced it. His playing was like listening to a guitar lead as opposed to "holding down the bottom".

He was also technically better than the people who usually get sited for that, such as Neil Peart. If you listen to the live version of Flaming Telepaths, his intro is machine gun fast, and wouldn't be out of place on death metal albums.

 
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  • #46
RockGod7 said:
Albert Bouchard is my favorite drummer by far, with the keyword being originality, not to discount the others. No other drummer played something that was musical like he did, and he always found something that not only fit with the tone of the song, but enhanced it. His playing was like listening to a guitar lead as opposed to "holding down the bottom".

He was also technically better than the people who usually get sited for that, such as Neil Peart. If you listen to the live version of Flaming Telepaths, his intro is machine gun fast, and wouldn't be out of place on death metal albums.


I prefer the studio version but I like the drumming.
 
  • #47
One day in 1996 I was driving up to a bridge in Corvallis Oregon. Pinball Wizard came on the radio. It was a hit when I was a kid so I'd heard it a hundred times, but somehow this time it was different. I was riveted by the drumming. I'd never really heard it before. The scene remains permanently impressed on my mind, everything I was seeing and hearing at the time, just like when I heard tell of the Kennedy assassination. Later I made this vid in honor of the occasion. It's a remix with boosted trap drums. I like the randomness of the cymbal crashes.



Roger Daltry said Keith once attacked him with the sharp edges of a tambourine. Roger was a sheet metal worker and used his strength to teach skinny Keith a lesson. "He deserved it," quoth Roger. Daltry also said he formed the band. He first saw John Entwistle walking down a sidewalk with a bass. Roger made the connection right then and there. There was so much tension the band once tried to go it without him but flopped so badly they never tried it again.

During another Corvallis drive there came via radio a violin concerto with the v so good I pulled over and parked to hear the whole thing undistracted and so I could find out who it was. Afterward they announced it was Sarah Chang. I found out later that USA violinists were jealous of her success, saying she relied too much on her history as a cute prodigy and later glamor. Well, she passed my blindfold test with flying colors, thank you very much.

I recently attended a recital by violinist Hilary Hahn, who these days might win a Best In The World poll. Very subdued. Huge disappointment. Maybe as a new mother she's abjured passion, giving up on being a "mother" in the jazz musician argot sense. But I imagine she'll be back some day. Maybe the kid will turn bratty and piss her off. That'd put some fire back in there.

I for the longest time couldn't figure what the big deal was about John Entwistle's ebass playing. It turns out he was very restrained in the studio but let loose on stage. In his late career he suffered from high-frequency hearing loss but insisted on adjusting his tone so that it sounded right to himself. Ouch. His nickname was The Ox, presumably because he was big, strong, and quiet.

I like the earlier poppier Who records, though I later found out that they secretly hired a group to do the background vocals. That explains why they couldn't duplicate those tunes on stage, a big disadvantage. I also don't believe that Pete played the guitar solo on Can't Explain. It's much more chaotic than anything else he ever did. I thought it was Jimmy Page, that paragon of chaos. Sure enough, Daltry recently (2018) confirmed this. Ha! Can't fool me. Surely it's JP on the Kinks' You Really Got Me too. Dave Davies never sounded like that.
 
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  • #48
Another underrated drummer : Tres Cool of Green Day.



He doesn't quite make the rolls, but IMO all drummers shared this condition until Senri Kawaguchi made the scene.
 
  • #49
pinball1970 said:
Yes the wrecking crew were legend and part of musical history but was Hal Baine a great drummer? Technically?
He was a great musician sure, played on some my favourite songs of all time but then again so did Ringo, Ola Brunkert, Robert Siebenberg and Nigel Olsson.
Do not despair. Years ago I read a similar poll among professional musicians in San Francisco that gave honorary 'underrated drummer' status to Ringo Starr. The gist of the responses was that the Beatles were so insanely popular that that mop top must hide a major percussive talent, evidence from the movie "A Hard Day's Night" notwithstanding.

Rolling Stone columnist Hunter Thompson supposedly compared Ringo's talent to that of a talking dog. "The amazing thing about a talking dog is not what it says, but that it talks at all.". What does a glorified sports writer understand about music?
 
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  • #50
Klystron said:
Do not despair. Years ago I read a similar poll among professional musicians in San Francisco that gave honorary 'underrated drummer' status to Ringo Starr. The gist of the responses was that the Beatles were so insanely popular that that mop top must hide a major percussive talent, evidence from the movie "A Hard Day's Night" notwithstanding.

Rolling Stone columnist Hunter Thompson supposedly compared Ringo's talent to that of a talking dog. "The amazing thing about a talking dog is not what it says, but that it talks at all.". What does a glorified sports writer understand about music?
My observation is that Ringo is dissed a lot. He had a comical stage name and clownish persona and sings not very well, that didn't help. The lame Ringo Song was a traditional sort of joke. It didn't help that Bernard Purdy claimed to have played on early Beatles recordings.* But he's #14 on the Rolling Stone list so we can say he's a big success with those in the know. Myself I didn't think much of him but slowly grew to appreciate what he does. He's devoted 100% to supporting the singer and the song and never fails to do so. He knows rumba and cha-cha beats and his work on Tomorrow Never Knows is genius. His solo on Birthday is SO cool. I've learned not to care so much about chops and to respect Ringo. So let's say that Ringo is a success with the experts but perhaps underrated by the general public.

By the way, Ringo means "apple" in Japanese. Did Yoko tell them that, inspiring The Beatle's Apple Corps, later to be monickeristically followed by the eponymous computer company?

---
*The skinny seems to be that Purdy played on some demos but not the official records.
 
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  • #51
Hornbein said:
One day in 1996 I was driving up to a bridge in Corvallis Oregon. Pinball Wizard came on the radio. It was a hit when I was a kid so I'd heard it a hundred times, but somehow this time it was different. I was riveted by the drumming. I'd never really heard it before. The scene remains permanently impressed on my mind, everything I was seeing and hearing at the time, just like when I heard tell of the Kennedy assassination. Later I made this vid in honor of the occasion. It's a remix with boosted trap drums. I like the randomness of the cymbal crashes.



Roger Daltry said Keith once attacked him with the sharp edges of a tambourine. Roger was a sheet metal worker and used his strength to teach skinny Keith a lesson. "He deserved it," quoth Roger. Daltry also said he formed the band. He first saw John Entwistle walking down a sidewalk with a bass. Roger made the connection right then and there. There was so much tension the band once tried to go it without him but flopped so badly they never tried it again.

During another Corvallis drive there came via radio a violin concerto with the v so good I pulled over and parked to hear the whole thing undistracted and so I could find out who it was. Afterward they announced it was Sarah Chang. I found out later that USA violinists were jealous of her success, saying she relied too much on her history as a cute prodigy and later glamor. Well, she passed my blindfold test with flying colors, thank you very much.

I recently attended a recital by violinist Hilary Hahn, who these days might win a Best In The World poll. Very subdued. Huge disappointment. Maybe as a new mother she's abjured passion, giving up on being a "mother" in the jazz musician argot sense. But I imagine she'll be back some day. Maybe the kid will turn bratty and piss her off. That'd put some fire back in there.

I for the longest time couldn't figure what the big deal was about John Entwistle's ebass playing. It turns out he was very restrained in the studio but let loose on stage. In his late career he suffered from high-frequency hearing loss but insisted on adjusting his tone so that it sounded right to himself. Ouch. His nickname was The Ox, presumably because he was big, strong, and quiet.

I like the earlier poppier Who records, though I later found out that they secretly hired a group to do the background vocals. That explains why they couldn't duplicate those tunes on stage, a big disadvantage. I also don't believe that Pete played the guitar solo on Can't Explain. It's much more chaotic than anything else he ever did. I thought it was Jimmy Page, that paragon of chaos. Sure enough, Daltry recently (2018) confirmed this. Ha! Can't fool me. Surely it's JP on the Kinks' You Really Got Me too. Dave Davies never sounded like that.

I will never be convinced by Moon. I did not rate him when I was learning and that has not changed. He certainly always seems to do ok in terms of "rated-ness."
I like the Who however, genius guitar work and song writing and the harmony is fantastic.
Moon seems to work with it.
 
  • #52
Hornbein said:
My observation is that Ringo is dissed a lot. He had a comical stage name and clownish persona and sings not very well, that didn't help. The lame Ringo Song was a traditional sort of joke. It didn't help that Bernard Purdy claimed to have played on early Beatles recordings.* But he's #14 on the Rolling Stone list so we can say he's a big success with those in the know. Myself I didn't think much of him but slowly grew to appreciate what he does. He's devoted 100% to supporting the singer and the song and never fails to do so. He knows rumba and cha-cha beats and his work on Tomorrow Never Knows is genius. His solo on Birthday is SO cool. I've learned not to care so much about chops and to respect Ringo. So let's say that Ringo is a success with the experts but perhaps underrated by the general public.

By the way, Ringo means "apple" in Japanese. Did Yoko tell them that, inspiring The Beatle's Apple Corps, later to be monickeristically followed by the eponymous computer company?

---
*The skinny seems to be that Purdy played on some demos but not the official records.
Only the early sessions, Martin was used to studio pros. He didn't like Pete Best and Ringo had not been in the band long so he use his own guy. Andy White.
Purdy would have been in the states at that time.
 
  • #53
Klystron said:
Do not despair. Years ago I read a similar poll among professional musicians in San Francisco that gave honorary 'underrated drummer' status to Ringo Starr. The gist of the responses was that the Beatles were so insanely popular that that mop top must hide a major percussive talent, evidence from the movie "A Hard Day's Night" notwithstanding.

Rolling Stone columnist Hunter Thompson supposedly compared Ringo's talent to that of a talking dog. "The amazing thing about a talking dog is not what it says, but that it talks at all.". What does a glorified sports writer understand about music?
I like Ringo, he was one of my first influences. The fills in Strawberry Fields are just so laid back, cool, caught my ear before I knew the kit.
Ian Paice summed up his contributions to the Beatles as "perfection." Jury is out on how underrated he is, no one is going to ever say he is a technical drummer.
I think opinion has changed in the last 20 years.
Remember when John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world?
(Lennon) The world? He's not the best drummer in the Beatles!
Both he and McCartney could play and PM Played all instruments on "McCartney" and drums on "Band on the run "
Anyway to me he was the ultimate musical drummer in the 1960s. The US had Hal Blaine but we had Ringo.
Notable mentions from him.

Hello Goodbye.
Rain.
I gotta Feeling
Strawberry Fields
Blue Jay Way.
Day in the life.
 
  • #54
How about Brian Downey of Thin Lizzie?

 
  • #55
Hornbein said:
How about Brian Downey of Thin Lizzie?



Did Downey do Whiskey in Jar too? I really like the fills and sound in that track. Boomy toms
 
  • #56
pinball1970 said:
Great guitar player, I don't know the band.
Clay is outstanding and the band Polyphia is very talented. I saw them live last year.
 
  • #57
You might like Travis Orbin.



I first heard him without the visual and couldn't figure out how he did it. He has a kit that is so compact he can sneak in a hit en passant.

He doesn't improvise. He gets a recording, writes up a score, and reads off of that.

This recording is magic. So far they haven't been able to get there again.
 
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  • #58
Hornbein said:
You might like Travis Orbin.



I first heard him without the visual and couldn't figure out how he did it. He has a kit that is so compact he can sneak in a hit en passant.

He doesn't improvise. He gets a recording, writes up a score, and reads off of that.

This recording is magic. So far they haven't been able to get there again.

He writes then reads a score for that??
That is just bonkers.

I cannot even tell what time signature that is.
The playing in Jazz fusion is just incredible, top technique.
I have not listened to enough of it
 
  • #59
Here's Travis at his most mathematical. Mostly he's a session man for death metal bands.

"Living in the densely wooded forests of Delaware, surviving on nothing but maple syrup and bear meat, he trains. And waits. After waking at dawn and completing his workout routine (consisting of bench pressing and curling felled 100 year old Maple Trees), he pulls out his practice pad, practicing his footwork, ghost notes, and cool flammy dang until its too dark to see. There, in his secluded hut made of broken Vic Firth Magnum sticks and moose hide, he patiently waits until his masterful skills are called upon once more. And when that day comes, he jumps into action, with grace, surgical precision, and thundering power. He's not only the hero that our aural urges deserve, but the one that we need. "
 
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  • #60
PeroK said:
My friend gives another vote for Bill Ward. He's an ardent Sabbath fan.
I never thought much of Bill Ward until I saw this.



He's #42 on the Rolling Stone list.