Who Is the Most Underrated Rock Drummer?

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To be considered underrated, a musician must be highly skilled, have significant exposure through hit records and tours, yet remain largely unrecognized. The discussion highlights drummer Albert Bouchard from Blue Oyster Cult, noted for his subtlety and originality, as an example of this phenomenon. Comparisons are made with other drummers like Ian Paice, who, despite his talent and exposure, is often overshadowed by more celebrated drummers like Neil Peart and John Bonham. The conversation also touches on the varying perceptions of drummers such as Ringo Starr, who, despite his popularity, is sometimes dismissed in discussions about technical skill. The concept of "underratedness" is explored through various formulas that consider musical ability, record sales, and levels of praise, suggesting that even highly skilled musicians can be overlooked in favor of more famous counterparts. Overall, the thread emphasizes the complexity of recognition in the music industry and the subjective nature of what defines an underrated artist.
  • #51
Hornbein said:
One day in 1996 I was driving up to a bridge in Corvallis Oregon. Pinball Wizard came on the radio. It was a hit when I was a kid so I'd heard it a hundred times, but somehow this time it was different. I was riveted by the drumming. I'd never really heard it before. The scene remains permanently impressed on my mind, everything I was seeing and hearing at the time, just like when I heard tell of the Kennedy assassination. Later I made this vid in honor of the occasion. It's a remix with boosted trap drums. I like the randomness of the cymbal crashes.



Roger Daltry said Keith once attacked him with the sharp edges of a tambourine. Roger was a sheet metal worker and used his strength to teach skinny Keith a lesson. "He deserved it," quoth Roger. Daltry also said he formed the band. He first saw John Entwistle walking down a sidewalk with a bass. Roger made the connection right then and there. There was so much tension the band once tried to go it without him but flopped so badly they never tried it again.

During another Corvallis drive there came via radio a violin concerto with the v so good I pulled over and parked to hear the whole thing undistracted and so I could find out who it was. Afterward they announced it was Sarah Chang. I found out later that USA violinists were jealous of her success, saying she relied too much on her history as a cute prodigy and later glamor. Well, she passed my blindfold test with flying colors, thank you very much.

I recently attended a recital by violinist Hilary Hahn, who these days might win a Best In The World poll. Very subdued. Huge disappointment. Maybe as a new mother she's abjured passion, giving up on being a "mother" in the jazz musician argot sense. But I imagine she'll be back some day. Maybe the kid will turn bratty and piss her off. That'd put some fire back in there.

I for the longest time couldn't figure what the big deal was about John Entwistle's ebass playing. It turns out he was very restrained in the studio but let loose on stage. In his late career he suffered from high-frequency hearing loss but insisted on adjusting his tone so that it sounded right to himself. Ouch. His nickname was The Ox, presumably because he was big, strong, and quiet.

I like the earlier poppier Who records, though I later found out that they secretly hired a group to do the background vocals. That explains why they couldn't duplicate those tunes on stage, a big disadvantage. I also don't believe that Pete played the guitar solo on Can't Explain. It's much more chaotic than anything else he ever did. I thought it was Jimmy Page, that paragon of chaos. Sure enough, Daltry recently (2018) confirmed this. Ha! Can't fool me. Surely it's JP on the Kinks' You Really Got Me too. Dave Davies never sounded like that.

I will never be convinced by Moon. I did not rate him when I was learning and that has not changed. He certainly always seems to do ok in terms of "rated-ness."
I like the Who however, genius guitar work and song writing and the harmony is fantastic.
Moon seems to work with it.
 
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  • #52
Hornbein said:
My observation is that Ringo is dissed a lot. He had a comical stage name and clownish persona and sings not very well, that didn't help. The lame Ringo Song was a traditional sort of joke. It didn't help that Bernard Purdy claimed to have played on early Beatles recordings.* But he's #14 on the Rolling Stone list so we can say he's a big success with those in the know. Myself I didn't think much of him but slowly grew to appreciate what he does. He's devoted 100% to supporting the singer and the song and never fails to do so. He knows rumba and cha-cha beats and his work on Tomorrow Never Knows is genius. His solo on Birthday is SO cool. I've learned not to care so much about chops and to respect Ringo. So let's say that Ringo is a success with the experts but perhaps underrated by the general public.

By the way, Ringo means "apple" in Japanese. Did Yoko tell them that, inspiring The Beatle's Apple Corps, later to be monickeristically followed by the eponymous computer company?

---
*The skinny seems to be that Purdy played on some demos but not the official records.
Only the early sessions, Martin was used to studio pros. He didn't like Pete Best and Ringo had not been in the band long so he use his own guy. Andy White.
Purdy would have been in the states at that time.
 
  • #53
Klystron said:
Do not despair. Years ago I read a similar poll among professional musicians in San Francisco that gave honorary 'underrated drummer' status to Ringo Starr. The gist of the responses was that the Beatles were so insanely popular that that mop top must hide a major percussive talent, evidence from the movie "A Hard Day's Night" notwithstanding.

Rolling Stone columnist Hunter Thompson supposedly compared Ringo's talent to that of a talking dog. "The amazing thing about a talking dog is not what it says, but that it talks at all.". What does a glorified sports writer understand about music?
I like Ringo, he was one of my first influences. The fills in Strawberry Fields are just so laid back, cool, caught my ear before I knew the kit.
Ian Paice summed up his contributions to the Beatles as "perfection." Jury is out on how underrated he is, no one is going to ever say he is a technical drummer.
I think opinion has changed in the last 20 years.
Remember when John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world?
(Lennon) The world? He's not the best drummer in the Beatles!
Both he and McCartney could play and PM Played all instruments on "McCartney" and drums on "Band on the run "
Anyway to me he was the ultimate musical drummer in the 1960s. The US had Hal Blaine but we had Ringo.
Notable mentions from him.

Hello Goodbye.
Rain.
I gotta Feeling
Strawberry Fields
Blue Jay Way.
Day in the life.
 
  • #54
How about Brian Downey of Thin Lizzie?

 
  • #55
Hornbein said:
How about Brian Downey of Thin Lizzie?



Did Downey do Whiskey in Jar too? I really like the fills and sound in that track. Boomy toms
 
  • #56
pinball1970 said:
Great guitar player, I don't know the band.
Clay is outstanding and the band Polyphia is very talented. I saw them live last year.
 
  • #57
You might like Travis Orbin.



I first heard him without the visual and couldn't figure out how he did it. He has a kit that is so compact he can sneak in a hit en passant.

He doesn't improvise. He gets a recording, writes up a score, and reads off of that.

This recording is magic. So far they haven't been able to get there again.
 
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  • #58
Hornbein said:
You might like Travis Orbin.



I first heard him without the visual and couldn't figure out how he did it. He has a kit that is so compact he can sneak in a hit en passant.

He doesn't improvise. He gets a recording, writes up a score, and reads off of that.

This recording is magic. So far they haven't been able to get there again.

He writes then reads a score for that??
That is just bonkers.

I cannot even tell what time signature that is.
The playing in Jazz fusion is just incredible, top technique.
I have not listened to enough of it
 
  • #59
Here's Travis at his most mathematical. Mostly he's a session man for death metal bands.

"Living in the densely wooded forests of Delaware, surviving on nothing but maple syrup and bear meat, he trains. And waits. After waking at dawn and completing his workout routine (consisting of bench pressing and curling felled 100 year old Maple Trees), he pulls out his practice pad, practicing his footwork, ghost notes, and cool flammy dang until its too dark to see. There, in his secluded hut made of broken Vic Firth Magnum sticks and moose hide, he patiently waits until his masterful skills are called upon once more. And when that day comes, he jumps into action, with grace, surgical precision, and thundering power. He's not only the hero that our aural urges deserve, but the one that we need. "
 
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  • #60
PeroK said:
My friend gives another vote for Bill Ward. He's an ardent Sabbath fan.
I never thought much of Bill Ward until I saw this.



He's #42 on the Rolling Stone list.
 
  • #61
Hornbein said:
I never thought much of Bill Ward until I saw this.



He's #42 on the Rolling Stone list.

She has listened to this!

Not his strongest though. Symptom of the Universe, Supernaut and Fairies wear boots.
 
  • #62
Alex Van Halen really gets overshadowed by his brother. I don't think he cared, however.

Frank Beard is another name that doesn't get mentioned much.
 
  • #63
Mondayman said:
Alex Van Halen really gets overshadowed by his brother. I don't think he cared, however.

Frank Beard is another name that doesn't get mentioned much.
Alex is #51 on the Rolling Stone list. I think what he does on Jump is super.

Frank Beard is one of my faves and he isn't on the list! We may have a winna. Great tone and feel combined with a total disdain of flash. How underrated can you get.

When Frank was asked what he did with his first big royalty check he responded, "I spent it on drugs."
 
  • #64
Hornbein said:
When Frank was asked what he did with his first big royalty check he responded, "I spent it on drugs."
....and probably squandered the rest!
 
  • #65
Mondayman said:
Alex Van Halen really gets overshadowed by his brother. I don't think he cared, however.
He didn't stand out on the early stuff but does on Live Without A Net. Great tone. It seems ahead of its time to me but I wasn't following things at the time.



I was never crazy about Van Halen's albums but Live Without A Net is da bomb. Hear that crowd roar.

More than once I've been at gigs where the drummer has bad tone and I think, that must be a cheap kit. Then some other drummer gets on the same set and sounds great. Or vice versa.

"Upscaled to 4K". I once bought a program that did this but it was so slow I got my money back. It would have taken at least 90 hours of CPU time to process the VHS, maybe much more. Now that brings up something interesting. You could do a similar thing with music. Take old recordings and give them modern sound quality.
 
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  • #66
Ringo Starr, while not completely unnoticed, was definitely underrated. I don't know about actual virtuosity but in terms of never intruding or doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, acting in complete support of the music at hand. Just plain excellent taste.
 
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  • #67
Barriemore Barlow:

Aynsley Dunbar:
 
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  • #68
How about Phil Collins with Brand X? Some drummer said this was his favorite thing in the world so I checked it out. Phil is very impressive. The beat is the same as Mahavishnu's Vital Transformation but a lot more subtle. I had no idea he could do this.

There's no money in this sort of stuff so Phil gave up on it. Indeed I heard Brand X way back in 1976 and didn't notice Phil. His work was over my head, as they say.



He's #46 on the Rolling Stone list but not for this so I say that doesn't count. Way underrated!
 
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  • #69
Travis Orbin at his most apocalyptic.

 
  • #70
News flash! Senri Kawaguchi says her first trap drum idol was/is Ian Paice. Now she maximally digs Larnell Lewis of Snarky Puppy.

Here she is with a fusion big band in Poland. I bet they paid for her trip. They wanted to play with SK.



"The noisy is not OK in Tokyo." Indeed is could be the quietest of cities. People there are very sensitive to sound. I call it the City of Silence. Laptop computers are banned in libraries : the key clicking is too disturbing. So musicians pay to practice in heavily soundproofed studios. Such services aren't cheap.
 
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