Who makes these 'physics' rules anyway?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "laws" in physics and how they relate to political and economic contexts. Participants explore the idea of whether human legislation can influence or redefine natural laws, with references to historical anecdotes and political figures. The scope includes conceptual reasoning and anecdotal evidence rather than formal scientific discourse.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the validity of claims regarding political attempts to redefine physical laws.
  • Others reference a school of thought in economics that suggests natural laws govern markets, despite being created by human legislation.
  • Anecdotes are shared, such as the story of a city council attempting to ban water and a historical attempt to define Pi differently, illustrating the absurdity of legislative interference with natural laws.
  • One participant mentions a conversation involving congressmen discussing the repeal of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, questioning the credibility of such claims.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of news sources and the potential for misinformation, likening it to urban legends or myths that circulate with each administration.
  • Some participants suggest that political biases may affect perceptions of such claims, advocating for a more objective examination of the issues.
  • There is a humorous suggestion about the idea of having a "secretary of entropy" and the implications of repealing the Second Law of Thermodynamics for energy production.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus, with multiple competing views on the credibility of claims regarding the intersection of physics and politics. Disagreement exists regarding the interpretation of anecdotes and the reliability of sources.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on anecdotal evidence and personal biases, as well as the lack of formal verification for claims made regarding political actions and their implications on scientific laws.

rolerbe
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http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/659/car.gif

Not intended as a political statement.
 
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I can believe it. There's a whole school of thought in economics that says there are laws of nature governing the markets even though corporations, small businesses, etc are created by laws enacted & amended by human beings in a legislature somewhere.
 
russ_watters said:
I have a hard time believing that's true.

I don't. Well, actually yah i do but you never know. Reminds me of that ol story of the city council trying to ban water.
 
russ_watters said:
I have a hard time believing that's true.

I have a very hard time believing this is true, as well.
Now if this was quoted by someone in the GWB Administration, of course I'd believe it since GWB and cronies are nothing but a group of nit-wits. But someone from Obama's Admin?...
 
Yep! I was right!
After doing some google-based research, I found out that it was the GWB Administration--and not the Obama Administration--that tried to repeal the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Here is what CAR Engineer D. Cole said when questioned about this Obama task force meeting:

David E. Cole: I have not met with the Obama task force. The reference to "laws of physics" applies to a conversation I had with several congressmen a number of years ago where they suggested we pass a new 2nd law of thermodynamics.

"several congressmen a number of years ago" sounds like around the time of the Dubya Administration to me...

Source: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/obamas-auto-team-the-laws-of-physics/
 
I can't make any particular claim of veracity. I probably gave it more credence because it looks like a clip from a newspaper, not just internet fluff. Everything printed in the newspaper is true, isn't it??

If there was any point to make here, this would be it. Whether or not you suspect it true or not true, one would hope that these suspicions would not be significantly different if you replaced the word 'Obama' with the word 'Bush' in the above, and that we raise our intellectual examination above our individual biases.

For myself, I think these types of gaffe's occur all the time (with staff from both parties). They can be amusing, but I'm not too worried about them. Political wonks, because they are political wonks, tend to see the world as a set of social problems. I suspect that most of us here, because of our backgrounds will be more likely to see the world as a set of technical problems. Some are technical, some are social, but most are way more complex than can be imagined.
 
  • #10
I always thought it would be wise to have a secretary of entropy.
 
  • #11
Redbelly98 said:
Allow me to point out that congressmen are not part of any president's administration.

"If I were an idiot, and if I were a congressman...but I repeat myself..."
- Mark Twain
 
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  • #12
physicists=lawyers, this can't be a bad thing
 
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  • #13
Oh man, repealing the second law of thermodynamics is the best idea I've heard for ages! Imagine what we could do with all that free energy!
 
  • #15
All Obama-GWB aside, what rag of a "newspaper" printed the article in the OP? It has been shown here to be blatantly wrong. Newspapers printing the equivalent of a forwarded bogus e-mail again?
 
  • #16
Neo_Anderson said:
"several congressmen a number of years ago" sounds like around the time of the Dubya Administration to me...

Wow talk about being ... so blinded by political ideology.
 
  • #17
fourier jr said:
I can believe it. There's a whole school of thought in economics that says there are laws of nature governing the markets even though corporations, small businesses, etc are created by laws enacted & amended by human beings in a legislature somewhere.

In an unregulated market, natural selection prevails.
Attempting to regulate the market subverts evolution.
Many feel that welfare and subsidy programs are devolutionary.
Corporate welfare degrades the market.
Personal welfare degrades the culture.
Not sure how monopolies fit into the theory.
 
  • #18
FredGarvin said:
All Obama-GWB aside, what rag of a "newspaper" printed the article in the OP? It has been shown here to be blatantly wrong. Newspapers printing the equivalent of a forwarded bogus e-mail again?
Now that part doesn't surprise me!
 
  • #19
russ_watters said:
Now that part doesn't surprise me!
I get annoyed enough when people I know forward the idiotic e-mails on a daily basis. It takes my PO'd-ness to a whole new level when I see a newspaper or news show, essentially, do the same thing. These people get paid for this?
 
  • #20
And then they wonder why their newspapers are going out of business!
 
  • #21
It sounds like the type of urban legend/myth story that gets recycled and packaged up with a few detail changes for any and every administration. The core of it is an OLD joke about repealing the laws of physics. :rolleyes:
 

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