Why Are There Two Solutions for Pion Energy in This Kinematic Process?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the kinematic analysis of a particle reaction involving an incoming electron and a neutron, leading to the production of a pion and a proton. Participants explore the calculation of the final pion energy as a function of various parameters, including solid angles and four-momenta, and address the emergence of two solutions for the pion energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the kinematic process and expresses confusion over obtaining two solutions for the pion energy, questioning if this is a normal occurrence.
  • Another participant explains that the two solutions correspond to the limits on the edge of a Dalitz plot, suggesting that this is a common feature in three-body final states.
  • A subsequent participant inquires about the practical application of the two solutions in a Monte Carlo simulation, asking if a random value between the two should be used.
  • Another participant raises a question about the off-shell nature of the delta particle, suggesting that if it is on-shell, the problem may simplify.
  • A later reply provides a mathematical formulation for the conservation of energy in the center of mass frame, indicating that the angle between the pion and electron influences the number of positive solutions for the pion momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to handle the two solutions for the pion energy in practical applications, and there are differing views on the implications of the delta particle's off-shell status. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach for Monte Carlo simulations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the kinematic variables and the conditions under which the solutions are derived, such as the angle between the pion and electron and the energy conservation principles in different frames. These factors may influence the number of solutions obtained.

zelrik
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Hello,

It may not be the best place to ask but that is the best place I found :)

So I have been trying to calculate kinematic variables for the following process (incoming electron with energy ~360MeV and neutron at rest) :

e^- + n \rightarrow e^- + \Delta^0 \rightarrow e^- + \pi^- + p

So I tried to find the final pion energy, E_\pi as a function of it's solid angle (\theta_\pi,\phi_\pi),the electron initial and final 4-momenta as well as Q^2 and the various masses...

The problem is that I found 2 solutions for E_\pi as I end up with a second order polynomial and both solutions seems physical to me... is it normal or I have been doing something wrong? I can post some detailed calculations if needed.
 
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A three body final state is described by a Dalitz plot. If you plot E_e on one axis and E_pi on the other, any final state will fall within a circle in the non-relativistic case, and a more complicated shape for the relativistic case. Your two solutions for E_pi represent the two limits on the edge of the Dalitz plot. You could find more about th Dalitz plot in an older particle physics book.
 
Thanks, that seems very helpful :)

So in practice, if I want to run a Monte Carlo simulation of the reaction given a incident beam energy etc., what solution should I use at the end? a random value between those 2 ?
 
How off shell is the delta ? Looks to me like it should be quite on shell. That would render the problem most easy.

In any case, you can go to the pi proton center of mass and enforcing energy conservation should straightforwardly give you the (common) momentum shared. Then boost back to the lab.
 
In CM frame, we have this

\sqrt{p_e^2+m_e^2} + \sqrt{p_{\pi}^2+m_{\pi}^2} + \sqrt{p_e^2 + p_{\pi}^2 + 2 p_e p_{\pi} cos \theta + m_p^2} = E_{CM}

where \theta is the angle between the pion and the electron. If we hold p_e and \theta constant, after some tedius algebra this indeed results in a quadratic equation for p_{\pi} which may have one or two positive solutions. If the angle is less than 90 degrees, there should be only one positive solution. If it's greater than 90, for some p_e and E_{CM}, there may be two. If you're doing monte carlo, you should use both.
 

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