Why Do Hyperbolic Functions Require Complementary Functions Like Abs and Sgn?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between hyperbolic and trigonometric functions, particularly focusing on why hyperbolic functions appear to require complementary functions like absolute value (Abs) and sign (Sgn) in certain cases, while traditional trigonometric functions do not. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding identities and the treatment of square roots in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the identities for hyperbolic functions, such as ##\sinh(x) = \sqrt{\cosh(x)^2 - 1}##, are similar to trigonometric identities but question the necessity of including complementary functions like Abs and Sgn.
  • Others argue that the omission of the ##\pm## sign in square root expressions is problematic, asserting that both hyperbolic and trigonometric functions should include it to account for both positive and negative roots.
  • A participant emphasizes that the principal square root represents only the positive value, which leads to a misunderstanding of the need for the ##\pm## sign in certain equations.
  • There is a discussion about the representation of roots in general, with some suggesting that the notation ##\sqrt[n]{x}## should encompass all n roots rather than focusing solely on the principal root.
  • One participant points out the distinction between real and complex roots, indicating that while there are two real roots for even-degree roots, complex roots also exist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of square roots and the necessity of including complementary functions in hyperbolic identities. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the definitions and implications of these mathematical concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the understanding of square roots, particularly regarding the principal root versus all possible roots, and the implications of these definitions in both hyperbolic and trigonometric contexts. There is also a noted confusion between real and complex numbers in relation to roots.

Jhenrique
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By pythagorean identity, ##\sin(x)^2 + \cos(x)^2 = 1##, so ##\sin(x) = \sqrt{1 - \cos(x)^2}##; also, ##\sinh(x)^2 - \cosh(x)^2 = - 1##, therefore ##\sinh(x) = \sqrt{\cosh(x)^2 - 1}##.

Happens that the last equation is incorrect, here is a full list of the correct forms for the hyperbolics:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbelfunktion#Umrechnungstabelle and here is a full trigonometric list for comparation: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identidades_trigonométricas#Relaciones_b.C3.A1sicas.

So, why the 'normal' trigonometrics no needs of completary functions, like Abs and Sgn, and the hyperbolic trigonometrics needs in some case?
 
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From the Wiki that you linked ... immediately above the table that is apparently in question:

De estas dos identidades, se puede extrapolar la siguiente tabla. Sin embargo, nótese que estas ecuaciones de conversión pueden devolver el signo incorrecto (+ ó −).
 
Jhenrique said:
By pythagorean identity, ##\sin(x)^2 + \cos(x)^2 = 1##, so ##\sin(x) = \sqrt{1 - \cos(x)^2}##;
No. You omitted the ##\pm##.
##\sin(x) = \pm \sqrt{1 - \cos(x)^2}##
Jhenrique said:
also, ##\sinh(x)^2 - \cosh(x)^2 = - 1##, therefore ##\sinh(x) = \sqrt{\cosh(x)^2 - 1}##.
Again, no, same problem as above.
##\sinh(x) = \pm \sqrt{\cosh(x)^2 - 1}##
Jhenrique;4708956 Happens that the last equation is incorrect said:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbelfunktion#Umrechnungstabelle[/url] and here is a full trigonometric list for comparation: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identidades_trigonométricas#Relaciones_b.C3.A1sicas.

So, why the 'normal' trigonometrics no needs of completary functions, like Abs and Sgn, and the hyperbolic trigonometrics needs in some case?
 
Yeah, I like of omit +/- because, by definition, a root square have 2 roots...
 
Jhenrique said:
Yeah, I like of omit +/- because, by definition, a root square have 2 roots...
No, that's not the definition. The square root of a positive real number has one value, not two.


It's true that real numbers have two square roots -- one positive and one negative -- but the expression ##\sqrt{x}## represents the principal square root of x, a positive real number that when multiplied by itself yields x.

If a square root represented two values, there would be no need to write ##\pm## in the quadratic formula:
$$x = \frac{-b \pm \sqrt{b^2 - 4ac}}{2a}$$

When you start with sin2(x) + cos2(x) = 1 and solve for sin(x), you need ##\pm## in there, otherwise you are getting only the positive value.
 
And if you have ##x=y^6## ? You'll write ##\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{x}}}## ? Not is better let that the ##\sqrt[n]{x}## represents the n roots?
 
Jhenrique said:
And if you have ##x=y^6## ? You'll write ##\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{x}}}## ? Not is better let that the ##\sqrt[n]{x}## represents the n roots?

On the reals there are only two roots: ##\sqrt[6]{x}## and ##-\sqrt[6]{x}##.
Jhenrique, you have reals and complex numbers mixed up.
 
Jhenrique said:
And if you have ##x=y^6## ? You'll write ##\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{x}}}## ? Not is better let that the ##\sqrt[n]{x}## represents the n roots?

If you take the square root of both sides of

y^6=x

you get

y^3=\pm\sqrt{x}
 
Jhenrique said:
And if you have ##x=y^6## ? You'll write ##\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{\pm\sqrt{x}}}## ? Not is better let that the ##\sqrt[n]{x}## represents the n roots?
Let's make it simple.
##y^6 = 64##
##\Rightarrow y = \pm \sqrt[6]{64} = \pm 2##

As it turns out, there are four other sixth roots of 64, but they are all complex. The only real sixth roots of 64 are 2 and -2.
 

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