Why Do Planets with the Same Orbital Period Have the Same Average Density?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the orbital period of planets and their average density, particularly focusing on two hypothetical planets with satellites in low altitude orbits. Participants explore the implications of gravitational forces, centripetal motion, and the conservation of momentum in different scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if two planets have the same orbital period, their average densities must also be the same, but expresses uncertainty about how to deduce this conclusion correctly.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical derivation showing that the gravitational forces acting on the satellites can be equated, leading to the conclusion that the average densities of the planets are equal, assuming low altitude orbits.
  • A participant questions the reasoning behind the conclusion that average densities are the same while the radii of the planets may differ, indicating a misunderstanding of the relationship between mass, radius, and density.
  • It is noted that the equality derived does not imply that the radii must be the same, but that the mass and radius relationship leads to equal densities.
  • In a separate scenario involving two individuals in a spacecraft, a participant discusses the implications of throwing an object to prevent collision, raising questions about momentum conservation and the effects of gravitational forces on their motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical relationships involved but express differing views on the implications of these relationships, particularly regarding the assumptions about radii and densities. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of momentum conservation in the spacecraft scenario.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about low altitude orbits and the neglect of external forces in the momentum conservation discussion. The relationship between mass, radius, and density is not fully resolved, and participants express varying levels of understanding regarding these concepts.

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1) Two planets X and Y (sphere) both have 1 satelite revolving at low altitude about them. If the theri periods of rotation are found to be the same, which of the followings properties regarding X and Y is most likely to the the same?
A) Mass
B) Average density
C) Acceleration due to gravity at their surfaces
D) Radius
The answer is B. I don't know how this answer can be figured out.
My attempt before :
The centripetal force required for the satelite is provided by gravitation force
=> GMm / r 2 = mv2/ r
=> v= sqrt( GM / r)
Period = 2 (pi) r / v
= 2 (pi) sqrt ( r3 / GM)
Their period are the same=> 2 (pi) sqrt ( rx3 / GM)= 2 (pi) sqrt ( ry3
=> rx3 / M = ry3 / M
Thus I guess the answer to be D. How should be answer be deduced correctly by appropriate concepts?


2) Suppose there is a large spacecraft revolving about the earth. There are 2 people, A and B, of same mass in the spacecraft each approaching other in opposite direction. A is carrying a box. The question is, how can collision of A and B be prevented by A's throwing the box to B?
First of all, prior to going into the question, I think their speed should be different. Since A(with a box) and B have different mass, they have to have differecnt velocity so that they can still perform uniform circular motion. Is it right? Moreover, for B to be able to receive the box, A should throw the box with a range of velocity such that the box can perform uniform circular motion around more or less the same radius as that of B, right?

As A throws the box to B, some momentum is transferred to from A to B via the box, right? However, in this case, the principle of conservation of linear momentum does not hold, since there is external forces acting on the system ( A with a box together with B), which is the centripetal forces (or gravitation forces). Hence, I wonder if the above consideration can still be valid. If yes, why? If no, what should be considered?

If A and B are not to collide, after throwing the box, A should have reverse velocity with vA> VB. However, after thinking in deep, I guess that after throwing the box, the velocity of A changes. And A can no longer perform uniform circular motion, and so is B, right? Eventually A and B would hit the spacecraft . Would the velocity of the spacecraft be affected?

Thanks a lot to answer me such conceptual troublesome questions!
 
Last edited:
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You are essentially correct for 1 for your initial steps. The key here seems to be that both satellites are in low altitude orbit. We can equate the gravitational equations of the two planets as

[tex]\frac{M_{x}}{(r_{x} + d_{x})^{3}} = \frac{M_{y}}{(r_{y} + d_{y})^{3}}[/tex]

where r is the radius of the respective planets and d is the altitude of the orbiting satellite. Because of the assumption that the satellites are in low altitude orbit, we can take [tex]d\approx0[/tex] which reduces the equality to

[tex]\frac{M_x}{(r_x)^{3}} = \frac{M_y}{(r_y)^{3}}[/tex]

which is equivalent to

[tex]\frac{M_x}{\frac{4}{3}\pi(r_x)^{3}} = \frac{M_y}{\frac{4}{3}\pi(r_y)^{3}}[/tex]
[tex]\rho_x = \rho_y[/tex]

As for 2, the question is momentum conservation. I can only offer an intuitive description. The gravitational force shouldn't matter because the motion is perpendicular to the force and momentum in that direction is in fact conserved (This becomes more clear if you take the co-rotating frame of reference). I don't think the spacecraft is relevant for this problem and it merely provides a setting for the problem (which requires two people to be weightless). Heuristically, person A needs to throw the box with enough speed so that the faster of the two will reverse direction (or at least come to a stop).
 
Last edited:
Yuqing said:
You are essentially correct for 1 for your initial steps. The key here seems to be that both satellites are in low altitude orbit. We can equate the gravitational equations of the two planets as

[tex]\frac{M_{x}}{(r_{x} + d_{x})^{3}} = \frac{M_{y}}{(r_{y} + d_{y})^{3}}[/tex]

where r is the radius of the respective planets and d is the altitude of the orbiting satellite. Because of the assumption that the satellites are in low altitude orbit, we can take [tex]d\approx0[/tex] which reduces the equality to

[tex]\frac{M_x}{(r_x)^{3}} = \frac{M_y}{(r_y)^{3}}[/tex]

which is equivalent to

[tex]\frac{M_x}{\frac{4}{3}\pi(r_x)^{3}} = \frac{M_y}{\frac{4}{3}\pi(r_y)^{3}}[/tex]
[tex]\rho_x = \rho_y[/tex]
Thanks for your reply.However, I don't understand why the average density is the same while the radii are not the same. In fact, I discovered that my logic was wrong. [tex]\frac{M_x}{(r_x)^{3}} = \frac{M_y}{(r_y)^{3}}[/tex] does not necessarily imply their radii are the same, let alone multiplying 4/3 pi to them converting them to density.
 
It doesn't matter if the radii are different, it will be compensated by the fact that the mass will also be different. The equality is not between radii, it is between the mass divided by the cube of the radius which is essentially an equality between the density.
 

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