Why have perfect tenses in English?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the usage and implications of perfect tenses in English, comparing them with other languages such as French and German. Participants explore the distinctions between simple past and perfect tenses, as well as the nuances in meaning that arise from their usage. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, personal experiences, and linguistic comparisons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of perfect tenses in English, suggesting that the simple past may convey similar meanings.
  • Another participant argues that "I was there" specifies a particular event, while "I have been there" implies a broader experience over time.
  • Some participants note that the perfect tense can indicate ongoing relevance or a connection to the present, contrasting with the simple past.
  • There is a discussion about the grammatical correctness of certain phrases, with participants providing examples to illustrate their points.
  • Comparisons are made between English and other languages, particularly regarding the use of tenses and aspects, with references to French and German structures.
  • One participant expresses frustration with the complexity of English tenses and the lack of clear rules, while others acknowledge the subtleties involved in their usage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the meanings conveyed by perfect and simple past tenses, with no consensus reached on the necessity or clarity of perfect tenses in English. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the challenges of learning English tenses, noting that the distinctions can be subtle and context-dependent. There are references to specific grammatical rules and examples that illustrate the complexities involved.

Who May Find This Useful

Language learners, linguists, and those interested in comparative grammar may find this discussion relevant, particularly in understanding the nuances of tense usage across different languages.

  • #31
Studiot said:
That is because the correct construction to express this thought would be

"Gadaffi had been the dictator of Libya at the time of the airliner crash in Lockerbee, Scotland."

Well I don't think that sentence is well constructed if you use the present perfect: "...has been...at the time...". I would write it as "Gadaffi has been the dictator of Libya since the airliner crash..." Again, you used the past perfect, which is correct, but that's not what I'm discussing now. My point is that even if you substitute the past perfect for "was", the use of the simple past is clear and is used. Moreover, when you use the past perfect, you should reference another point in the past. "Gaffafi had been dictator of Libya for twenty years before the Lockerbee incident". I discuss these types of sentences in the post you're referencing(#28). Please go back and read my comment re perfect vs imperfect tenses.
 
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