Why is the cusp not a submanifold?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical characterization of the cusp defined by the equation y=x^2/3 and its status as an embedded submanifold of R². Participants explore definitions and conditions for smooth embeddings and the implications of differentiable structures.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a definition of embedding that requires the tangent space mapping to be injective and the mapping to be a homeomorphism, arguing that the mapping defined by f(x)=(x, (x^2)^{1/3}) is not smooth at the origin.
  • Another participant questions whether there could exist a different pair (M, f) such that f is a smooth embedding and its image is the cusp.
  • A participant suggests that the core question may involve whether the mapping f can induce a differentiable structure on R that makes it smooth.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to consider whether there exists a smooth manifold M and an embedding f such that the image is the cusp set C.
  • One participant notes that every line through the origin intersects the cusp at least twice, which contrasts with the generic intersection number of one expected for a manifold.
  • There is a discussion about the equivalence of the questions posed in posts #4 and #5, with differing opinions on their generality.
  • Another participant asserts that the cusp is a smooth manifold with a smooth atlas defined by a projection onto the x-coordinate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the cusp and its classification as a manifold. There is no consensus on whether it can be considered an embedded submanifold or if alternative embeddings might exist.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of the smoothness of mappings and the implications of intersection numbers in the context of manifold theory. The discussion remains open regarding the definitions and conditions necessary for the cusp to be classified as a manifold.

quasar987
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My book says that the cusp y=x^2/3 is not an embedded submanifold of R². Why is that?
 
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According to my notes the embedding is defined like this:

Let M and N be differentiable manifolds, and f:M\to N a smooth (C^{\infty}) mapping. If for all p\in M the tangent space mapping f_{*p}:T_p(M)\to T_{f(p)}(N) is injective, and f:M\to f(M) is a homeomorphism when f(M) has the induced topology from N, then f is an embedding of M in N.

If we set the natural differentiable structures on \mathbb{R} and \mathbb{R}^2, then a mapping

f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}^2,\quad\quad f(x)=(x, (x^2)^{1/3})

is not an embedding, because it is not smooth at origo.
 
True, but an embedded submanifold is by definition (or characterisation) the image of a smooth embedding. Couldn't there be a pair (M, f) other than M=R and f given in your post such that f(M) = the cusp, and such that f is an smooth embedding?
 
So is the real question this: We give \mathbb{R}^2 the natural differentiable structure, define f:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}^2 like in my post, and ask that does this mapping somehow induce a differentiable structure on \mathbb{R} so that f becomes smooth?

Or perhaps the question is, that why cannot this f induce differentiable structure in such way, assuming that the book's claim is right?
 
The real question is this:
Consider R² with the natural differentiable structure, and C the subset of R² defined by the equation y=x^2/3. Is there a smooth manifold M and an embedding f:M-->R² whose image is C.
 
every line through the origin of that set has intersection number ≥ 2 with the set. for a manifold, the generic intersection number will be one.
 
Isn't the content of the posts #4 and #5 the same?
 
mathwonk said:
every line through the origin of that set has intersection number ≥ 2 with the set. for a manifold, the generic intersection number will be one.

Well, the cusp is a smooth manifold, with smooth atlas consisting of the unique chart "projection onto the x coordinate".

jostpuur said:
Isn't the content of the posts #4 and #5 the same?

Well, it seems to me that the question in post #5 is more general than any of the 2 questions of post #4. Or perhaps they are equivalent?
 

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