Why is the summation in the first part from k=0 to n-1?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the setup of a definite integral and the corresponding Riemann sums, specifically addressing the summation index in the left-hand sum from \( k=0 \) to \( n-1 \). Participants explore the implications of this choice in the context of approximating the integral of the function \( 4-7x \) over the interval from 1 to 8.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the integral \( I = \int_1^8 (4-7x) \, dx \) and attempts to derive a corresponding Riemann sum.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the correctness of their derived expression for the sum, indicating a potential error in their calculations.
  • Several participants engage in deriving the left-hand sum, with one proposing the expression \( I_n = -\frac{7}{n^2} \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} (3n + 49k) \) and discussing the use of summation formulas.
  • There is a question about the necessity of summing from \( k=0 \) to \( n-1 \), with a participant explaining that this choice relates to the evaluation of the integrand at the left endpoints of the partitions.
  • Another participant inquires about the transition to lower sums and expresses confusion regarding the setup of these sums.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of their calculations, and there is ongoing confusion regarding the setup of the lower sums and the implications of the summation index.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various summation formulas and the geometric interpretation of the integral, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the limits of summation and the definitions of the Riemann sums.

VikramAhuja
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∫(4−7x)dx ====> Integral is from 1 to 8

Similar question but for some reason I can't get the answer after following all the steps
 
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VikramAhuja said:
∫(4−7x)dx ====> Integral is from 1 to 8

Similar question but for some reason I can't get the answer after following all the steps

I have moved your post to its own thread so that the other thread does not become convoluted.

Using a similar argument in my first post of the other thread, we can apply some simple geometry to see that the result should be:

$$I=\int_1^8 4-7x\,dx=-\left(3\cdot7 + \frac{1}{2}7\cdot49\right)=-\frac{385}{2}$$

Now, in setting up the left-hand sum, we may begin with:

$$I_n=\frac{7}{n}\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\left(4-7\left(1+k\left(\frac{7}{n}\right)\right)\right)$$

Are you with me so far?
 
Yes I've got to (7/n^2)((43n^2-49n)/2)

Apparently it is wrong
 
Okay, my next step would be:

$$I_n=-\frac{7}{n^2}\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}\left(3n+49k\right)$$

And next, I would write:

$$I_n=-\frac{7}{n^2}\left(3n\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}(1)+49\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}(k)\right)$$

Using summation formulas, there results:

$$I_n=-\frac{7}{n^2}\left(3n^2+49\frac{n(n-1)}{2}\right)$$

Now, factor out a $$\frac{n}{2}$$, distribute and combine like terms. What do you find?
 
Nevermind I got it but now with lower sums?
 
Last edited:
VikramAhuja said:
Would the answer be (-7(55*n-49))/(2*n)

Yes, I also get:

$$I_n=-\frac{7(55n-49)}{2n}$$

VikramAhuja said:
How'd you get this? (-7/n^2) ?

We initially had $$-\frac{7}{n}$$ in front of the sum as a factor, and then I factored out $$\frac{1}{n}$$ and then after combining terms, the summand became $3n+49k$.
 
Sorry I edited my post
 
VikramAhuja said:
Nevermind I got it but now with lower sums?

Can you show what you think the sum should initially be?
 
No I'm rather confused with lower sums
 
  • #10
The right-hand sum will simply be:

$$I_n=\frac{7}{n}\sum_{k=1}^{n}\left(4-7\left(1+k\left(\frac{7}{n}\right)\right)\right)$$
 
  • #11
Thanks a lot mate.
 
  • #12
One last question. Why is the summition in the first part sum_{n-1}^{k=0}
 
  • #13
VikramAhuja said:
One last question. Why is the summition in the first part sum_{n-1}^{k=0}

In the left-hand sum, the height of each rectangle is taken to be the integrand's value on the left side of each regular partition, so the index of summation needs to go from $k=0$ to $k=n-1$.

Table.jpg
 

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