Why is this false? - Short Fitch proof using Herbrand logic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a formal logic problem involving the Fitch proof system and Herbrand logic. Participants are examining the validity of a specific statement within a defined language and exploring the implications of universal quantification in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the statement { p(a), p(b), p(f(a)), p(f(b)) }⊢Fitch∀x.p(x) being marked false, questioning why p(f(f(a))) would not hold if ∀x.p(x) is true.
  • Another participant suggests that the inability to prove the statement may stem from the infinite possibilities presented by the infinitely-nesting function constants.
  • A participant challenges the claim that ∀x.p(x) can be proven using only p(a) as a premise, asserting that this is incorrect.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding the limitations of Universal Introduction, particularly in relation to constants versus variables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to disagree on the validity of the proof and the application of Universal Introduction. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the Fitch proof system in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential limitations of the language L2 and the implications of using constants versus variables in proofs, but these aspects remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in formal logic, particularly those exploring the Fitch proof system and Herbrand logic.

AmagicalFishy
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Hello, folks.

I'm taking my first formal logic class and some of the things seem contradictory; I know it's because I'm not fully understanding something, but I don't know what I'm not fully understanding—I hope someone can help me. The problem begins:

Problem said:
Let L2 be the language consisting of object constants a, b, a unary function constant f, and unary relation constants p, q.
For each of the following statements, state whether it is true or false under the language L2.

The statement I'm having trouble with is...

{ p(a), p(b), p(f(a)), p(f(b)) }⊢Fitch∀x.p(x)

... which I marked true. I'm able to prove that ∀x.p(x) while using only p(a) as a premise, even. The answer is false, and I'm told "p may not hold for terms like f(f(a)), f(f(b)), and so forth." But how could it not? Why would p(f(f(a))) not hold if ∀x.p(x)?

What I think of as I finish typing this that I'm misunderstanding what ⊢Fitch really means, which is "Prove using the Fitch system and no aspects of Herbrand logic." The only way to prove ∀x.p(x) is by using Universal Introduction and Elimination—which... is not encompassed by the provable operator ⊢Fitch?
 
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... is it because we can't (yet) explicitly prove the infinite possibilities presented by the infinitely-nesting function constants?
 
AmagicalFishy said:
I'm able to prove that ∀x.p(x) while using only p(a) as a premise, even.
No, you're not.
 
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... ?
Unless you mean I can't prove it within L2, in which case I wouldn't have the slightest clue as to why—it'd be the same thing. Perhaps there's some implication intrinsic in the conclusion that I've yet to learn about.

Could you be... um... helpful when you next respond?
 
Universal Introduction doesn't work that way. Why on Earth would it follow from the fact that, say, P holds for the number 37 that P holds for all x? a and b are constants, not variables.
 

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