Why Use Odd Notation for Tensors in Linear Algebra?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation used for tensors in linear algebra, specifically the preference for using odd notation such as M^{*} \otimes M \otimes M^{*} versus a more straightforward M \otimes M^{*} \otimes M. Participants explore the implications of this notation in the context of tensor products and their definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of using M^{*} \otimes M \otimes M^{*} instead of M \otimes M^{*} \otimes M, suggesting the latter seems more natural and less confusing.
  • Another participant explains that the notation with \otimes is used to denote the tensor product of vector spaces, implying a distinction from the ordinary Cartesian product denoted by \times.
  • A participant raises a point about the definition of M*, questioning whether it encompasses all mappings from M to R.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding the argument structure of tensors, particularly in relation to linear forms and their representation in the notation.
  • One participant illustrates the concept using a one-place tensor example, discussing how it relates to the dual space M* and its implications for understanding tensor types.
  • A later reply indicates that one participant has gained clarity on the topic after the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of the notation used for tensors, with no consensus reached on which notation is preferable. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and utility of the different notations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion arising from the notation and its implications for understanding tensor types and their relationships, but do not resolve the underlying issues of notation preference.

Zorba
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I've been looking through my notes for the last few weeks and i still do not see the reason for this use of notation that my lecturer uses, for example

We denote by M^{*} \otimes M \otimes M^{*} the vector space of all tensors of type M \times M^{*} \times M \rightarrow \mathbb{R}, where M is a finite dimensional real vector space, and M* is the dual space of M.

So why not just say instead:

We denote by M \otimes M^{*} \otimes M the vector space of all tensors of type M \times M^{*} \times M \rightarrow \mathbb{R}

which seems far more natural to me than the first one (and less confusing too...), is there some reason for using the former rather than latter?
 
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Because when discussing tensors, the tensor product of vector spaces is used thus the notation with the \otimes instead of the ordinary \times.

If the answer I've given you is not useful, could you, please, rephrase your question ? I may have not understood it properly.
 
Hi Zorba! :smile:

Using just one M, isn't M* defined as all thingys from M to R ? :confused:
 
dextercioby said:
Because when discussing tensors, the tensor product of vector spaces is used thus the notation with the \otimes instead of the ordinary \times.

If the answer I've given you is not useful, could you, please, rephrase your question ? I may have not understood it properly.

What I mean is, if we are considering M^{*} \otimes M \otimes M^{*} which means M \times M^{*} \times M \rightarrow \mathbb{R}, so the argument is of the from (x,f,y) where f are linear forms, so since f are elements of M* and x,y is in M, then why don't we write M \otimes M^{*} \otimes M instead?
 
Maybe this will clear things up:

Suppose instead of dealing with a three-place tensor, we are dealing with just a one-place tensor. Let T be such a one-place tensor.

Suppose T has an argument of the form (x) where x belongs to M. Then T must be a linear functional on M. So then T itself belongs to M* (the dual of M).

We see from this that M* is the vector space of all tensors of the same type as T, namely of type M --> R.

So if M* is the vector space of all tensors of type M --> R, then shouldn't we expect that M*\otimesM* is the vector space of all tensors of type M x M --> R?
 
Ah, yes I see it now, thanks for that.
 

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