Why would you want to go to a big college/uni for undegrad?

[Mépris]

Why would you want to go to a "big" college/uni for undegrad?

I have been thinking about studying Physics for a good while now (often got talked out of it by teachers/dad but always went back to it; feels like what I have to do is that) and the first universities that came to mind were Oxbridge, MIT, CalTech, UC and the like.

The thing is, why bother going there? What can these universities offer that an "average" university cannot? As far as I know, undergraduate programs are standard pretty much anywhere. I suppose the other factors involved would be things like what kind of friends one could make at X uni as opposed to Y uni and the uni location.

Personally, all I want from university is the following:

- covers pretty much the same material that most unis cover
- recognition (in that I can easily go to another university abroad for a PhD, in the event that I'd want to do one once I'm done with my BSc - that is, of course, assuming I have the grades)
- location (somewhere quiet and cold)

And that's about it. Good teaching would of course, be a bonus. Sup-par teaching could also be helpful - an aspect of university that I think forms part of the "uni/college experience" is independence. And having bad teachers would mean I'd have to work my behind off to learn the material properly. ON MY OWN.

What are your opinions on this? I have to repeat a year because I dropped English Lit for Chemistry and while I think it would be awesome to live in certain parts of Europe, I don't think I can be bothered to spend THAT much $$$ on tuition fees alone. So, my plan is to take my A-level exams a few months earlier, in May/June next year, instead of Oct/Nov and go to uni in that same year, instead of the next year. My grades won't be as good, but I really couldn't be ****ed if I got a C/D in Chem, instead of a B, as long as my Maths/Physics grades are good (read: A).

My apologies if I made one mistake too many (in terms of language) or if I don't sound very foechernet. I' m slightly tipsy.

 

[chiro]

I have been thinking about studying Physics for a good while now (often got talked out of it by teachers/dad but always went back to it; feels like what I have to do is that) and the first universities that came to mind were Oxbridge, MIT, CalTech, UC and the like.

The thing is, why bother going there? What can these universities offer that an "average" university cannot? As far as I know, undergraduate programs are standard pretty much anywhere. I suppose the other factors involved would be things like what kind of friends one could make at X uni as opposed to Y uni and the uni location.

Personally, all I want from university is the following:

- covers pretty much the same material that most unis cover
- recognition (in that I can easily go to another university abroad for a PhD, in the event that I'd want to do one once I'm done with my BSc - that is, of course, assuming I have the grades)
- location (somewhere quiet and cold)

And that's about it. Good teaching would of course, be a bonus. Sup-par teaching could also be helpful - an aspect of university that I think forms part of the "uni/college experience" is independence. And having bad teachers would mean I'd have to work my behind off to learn the material properly. ON MY OWN.

What are your opinions on this? I have to repeat a year because I dropped English Lit for Chemistry and while I think it would be awesome to live in certain parts of Europe, I don't think I can be bothered to spend THAT much $$$ on tuition fees alone. So, my plan is to take my A-level exams a few months earlier, in May/June next year, instead of Oct/Nov and go to uni in that same year, instead of the next year. My grades won't be as good, but I really couldn't be ****ed if I got a C/D in Chem, instead of a B, as long as my Maths/Physics grades are good (read: A).

My apologies if I made one mistake too many (in terms of language) or if I don't sound very foechernet. I' m slightly tipsy.

The way I would describe it, would be to compare it to getting a job somewhere.

When you go for a job, you (hopefully) want to find somewhere where you are a good fit, have a good match in terms of the culture of the place, and in that sense click.

There are probably a lot of jobs doing roughly the same thing, but every business will have a different culture, outlook, values and so on. In one job the environment might be extremely cut-throat and unforgiving, and in another it might be a little more forgiving and more relaxing.

The same thing happens with universities. There are many institutions that have different expectations of the students and have specific cultural aspects that you may love or loathe.

Personally (and this is just my opinion so take it or leave it), if you have it in yourself to get great marks and take the chance to personally develop at any decent university, it won't matter where you did it.

My advice to you is to somehow gauge the culture of different places by asking current students or alumni. There are people on here who have been to places like MIT so they can give real feedback (I know two-fish went to MIT and diazona went to Princeton).

Just out of curiosity, what is important to you? Is it prestige (for some it is), is it having a good study/work/life balance? Is it getting into somewhere with a particular specialty? Is it finding somewhere decent enough that's high value for the education you get?

I think if you think about things like this you'll be able to get a better idea and narrow places down based on your constraints.

 

[Mépris]

The way I would describe it, would be to compare it to getting a job somewhere.

When you go for a job, you (hopefully) want to find somewhere where you are a good fit, have a good match in terms of the culture of the place, and in that sense click.

There are probably a lot of jobs doing roughly the same thing, but every business will have a different culture, outlook, values and so on. In one job the environment might be extremely cut-throat and unforgiving, and in another it might be a little more forgiving and more relaxing.

The same thing happens with universities. There are many institutions that have different expectations of the students and have specific cultural aspects that you may love or loathe.

Personally (and this is just my opinion so take it or leave it), if you have it in yourself to get great marks and take the chance to personally develop at any decent university, it won't matter where you did it.

My advice to you is to somehow gauge the culture of different places by asking current students or alumni. There are people on here who have been to places like MIT so they can give real feedback (I know two-fish went to MIT and diazona went to Princeton).

Just out of curiosity, what is important to you? Is it prestige (for some it is), is it having a good study/work/life balance? Is it getting into somewhere with a particular specialty? Is it finding somewhere decent enough that's high value for the education you get?

I think if you think about things like this you'll be able to get a better idea and narrow places down based on your constraints.

Ah yes, that makes sense. Thank you for the post.

I am by no means a genius but I think I should be able to nail that. (bold part) It's the next bit that I am more concerned about.I will try make a visit to the local university and see what I think of it.

I've talked to people who currently go there or have studied there in the past; two of which are friends and the remaining lot are teachers. My friends were disappointed with the social aspect, they expected something different. Both of them basically said this: "I face the same problem I did at high school there, a very limited social circle. I really doubt you'll find the kind of people you'd want to mix with there and overall, I don't feel it's the kind of experience you'd want. It's high school all over again. Just a bit bigger."

Another interesting thing to note is that all of my teachers which I have talked to about that uni, had similar responses. One studied Physics, another Chemistry and the other did French. And the lot of them are intelligent persons, by my standards at least. They are also roughly the same age; 30-35 y/o. They all had felt that they could have done something "more". Whenever I've talked to them about it, they always said something like: "Okay, you'll do that. Then what next?" It's not like they were trying to talk me out of it, but it felt more like they didn't want me to end up in the same spot they did.

French teacher talked about his neighbour who's a "maitre de conferences", which according to wiki, is the equivalent of an associate professor/senior lecturer.

The Chemistry teacher felt that there wasn't much I could do with science and if I really wanted to study that, there'd be much more I could do if I just changed fields altogether and went into finance or tried going into research in industry or start up a business. (or both)

The Physics teacher said something, em, interesting. I forgot what he was teaching but he mentioned something biology-related and somebody asked him whether he had studied it at school. He said: "Nope, hated it. Had to teach it to some kids some time back, so I had to learn it." After class I asked him why he studied Physics and how he became a teacher. "Well, around your age, all I could think of was 'drink, eat, sleep and maybe a girlfriend'. Then, I had to go to uni. I did physics 'cause I was good at it. Then I had to find a job. There was a job opening at this private school, so I went for it. The head of school seemed like a great guy and I got the job. I did it and people said I was good at it, so I kept at it. And yeah, here I am."

By the look of things, none of them seem to have gotten out of there any less depressed. They seem more knowledgeable and mature. But happy? Satisfied? I can't possibly know but it doesn't look like it.

I suppose there's a huge element of luck involved in that and what works for others, might not work for me and so on.

Also, prestige is hardly a concern. I grew out of this crap. To sum up, a good education, an environment I feel comfortable in and manning up is what I'd want.

 

[wisvuze]

I'm going to a "big" university, and while it has its down-sides, it has a lot of upsides too. For one, the class sizes seem to be bigger ( although the "honours" math classes don't have too many students ). However, it does help you develop a knack for self-study, something I think a math student should be good at. My favourite thing about being at a "big" university though, are the MASSIVE libraries and resources available to you. No really, pretty much any book I look up, out of print or not, I can find at my library.. stuff has been accumulating here since like the 1800s aha. and being primarily a self-studier, I wouldn't give this up for ANY other university (unless of course, their libraries are better)

 

[Mépris]

I'm going to a "big" university, and while it has its down-sides, it has a lot of upsides too. For one, the class sizes seem to be bigger ( although the "honours" math classes don't have too many students ). However, it does help you develop a knack for self-study, something I think a math student should be good at. My favourite thing about being at a "big" university though, are the MASSIVE libraries and resources available to you. No really, pretty much any book I look up, out of print or not, I can find at my library.. stuff has been accumulating here since like the 1800s aha. and being primarily a self-studier, I wouldn't give this up for ANY other university (unless of course, their libraries are better)

Noted.

The odds are not in my favour of going to any kind of "big" university. Getting the grades is a challenge in itself, if I do get them, I don't have the money to pay for (non-EU/US citizen) tuition. And all the other variables involved, post application. Like, somebody in the admissions office "not liking how I sound" and from what I gather, I'm not very likable. At first, anyway. (more of an acquired taste) As far as I remember, daddy never raped me and I don't come from the ghetto. I was actually lucky enough to be a born in a reasonably well off family, so no pity-grants for me because of any kind of heart-wrenching essay. (not that I would want that kind of thing; too much of an arrogant prick for that, I suppose?)

I suppose the plan here for me is to try find ways around this. So, to you, a good library is a plus and I can see how that could be helpful. However, depending on your moral values, you could easily find virtually any e-book you might need for your course via certain means.

I don't know what "big" uni you're at but kudos to you for getting the grades. ;)

 

[wisvuze]

I once bought myself a tablet so I could download and upload onto it every math book in the world ( oops, I wasn't supposed to admit that on the internet ); I ended up selling the tablet off because e-books SUCK. Technology isn't good enough to replace books, especially when you're reading math books and stuff you always want a quick flip ability to the index and other pages ( you need an O(1) constant time ability, not O(nlogn) !)
anyway, I go to the university of Toronto in Canada; luckily for me, the government will give a loan to anyone, well off or not. And the tuition here in Canada is much cheaper too.
I honestly think that most undergraduate programs share the same quality of education, so the deal-breakers for me are things like awesome libraries and resources. On the other hand, I'm sure that going to a fancy school would be an ego-stroker for you, and thus motivating you to study better :)

 

[Mépris]

I once bought myself a tablet so I could download and upload onto it every math book in the world ( oops, I wasn't supposed to admit that on the internet ); I ended up selling the tablet off because e-books SUCK. Technology isn't good enough to replace books, especially when you're reading math books and stuff you always want a quick flip ability to the index and other pages ( you need an O(1) constant time ability, not O(nlogn) !)
anyway, I go to the university of Toronto in Canada; luckily for me, the government will give a loan to anyone, well off or not. And the tuition here in Canada is much cheaper too.
I honestly think that most undergraduate programs share the same quality of education, so the deal-breakers for me are things like awesome libraries and resources. On the other hand, I'm sure that going to a fancy school would be an ego-stroker for you, and thus motivating you to study better :)

Definitely, e-books don't beat the actual stuff but hey, you got to work with what ya' got. A loan is an option but if I'm going to be swimming neck deep in debt, it might as well be for reasons more than just good education. You know, like a h-word service or if that fails, a couple of subscriptions to Met-Art and the like. :p

No, I don't think so. I doubt that kind of thing would inflate my ego. If I were a few years younger, then probably yes. A big plus for me would be that I'd get the opportunity to meet a whole bunch of interesting people. That's one of the reasons why I'd prefer going to a university offering a wider range of subjects and not just science and engineering.

 

[Angry Citizen]

If you're worried about grades and getting into a 'big' school, then first you have to define what a 'big' school is. If we're talking MIT, then even good grades isn't going to get you there. From what I've read around here, it really seems to be luck of the draw; although, of course, the only way to be in the draw at all is to have a near-flawless high school career with boatloads of mind-numbing extracurriculars.

However, if we're talking University of Texas, then, well, I got into UT and Texas A&M, and I never even went to high school. My community college GPA is 3.7, and I had no extracurriculars. My advice to you is to look at schools like UT instead of MIT. They're much, much easier to get into (again, if I can get in them, a monkey can), and state schools tend to be much better on the social frontier.

 

[khemist]

Dont forget the research opportunities presented at the larger schools. Some (UC Berkeley, for example) even have connections with national labs.

If you are considering certain school but are not sure, just go for it. Limiting yourself before you know what you want does just that, limits you. Keeping doors open for different opportunities is one of the most important things I have learned in applying and attending college/ university.

 

[eXorikos]

Every uni has connections with a big lab? We for example have great connections at CERN (predominantly ISOLDE) and we're a small uni (KULeuven).

And since we exist since 1425 we also have a good library. ;)

 

[Ryker]

Every uni has connections with a big lab? We for example have great connections at CERN (predominantly ISOLDE) and we're a small uni (KULeuven).

And since we exist since 1425 we also have a good library. ;)

To be fair, though, KULeuven is definitely very renowned.

 

[khemist]

Every uni has connections with a big lab? We for example have great connections at CERN (predominantly ISOLDE) and we're a small uni (KULeuven).

And since we exist since 1425 we also have a good library. ;)

Hardly every. Most of the major ones do, though, and considering the OP is considering major vs minor universities and is also considering graduate schools, research is an important topic.

 

[Mépris]

If you're worried about grades and getting into a 'big' school, then first you have to define what a 'big' school is. If we're talking MIT, then even good grades isn't going to get you there. From what I've read around here, it really seems to be luck of the draw; although, of course, the only way to be in the draw at all is to have a near-flawless high school career with boatloads of mind-numbing extracurriculars.

However, if we're talking University of Texas, then, well, I got into UT and Texas A&M, and I never even went to high school. My community college GPA is 3.7, and I had no extracurriculars. My advice to you is to look at schools like UT instead of MIT. They're much, much easier to get into (again, if I can get in them, a monkey can), and state schools tend to be much better on the social frontier.

I'm not very worried about grades. I can get them. I am more concerned with the opportunity costs of getting good grades. I am eighteen and there are other things besides pseudo-philosophising and bettering exam technique that I could be doing. There are other things I am interested in learning. There are other people I could meet. Long story short, better things to do than trying to up my grade from a B to an A*, when it won't serve me much. I don't want to end up with 3 A*s and say, an offer from Imperial College London but without the funds to go there. (frankly, 80k GBP is not worth the hassle!) Things don't work the way people are led to believe they do. When you're twelve and people tell you that all you have to do is get good grades and things will fall into place, you believe them. A couple of years and some disappointments down the line, you start getting a better understanding of "life mechanics".

Thanks for the heads up about Tex'. How do you like it there? How did the application process go?

Dont forget the research opportunities presented at the larger schools. Some (UC Berkeley, for example) even have connections with national labs.

If you are considering certain school but are not sure, just go for it. Limiting yourself before you know what you want does just that, limits you. Keeping doors open for different opportunities is one of the most important things I have learned in applying and attending college/ university.

Sure. There's little room for regret when you're not limiting yourself. In that respect, at least.

Hardly every. Most of the major ones do, though, and considering the OP is considering major vs minor universities and is also considering graduate schools, research is an important topic.

I wouldn't think so. Who's to say I'll want to stay at that specific uni for post graduate study? First things first.

 

[Angry Citizen]

Thanks for the heads up about Tex'. How do you like it there? How did the application process go?

I'm still in the process for both A&M and UT (both are good schools), so I can't comment on whether they have good atmospheres. So far, they've both had wonderfully smooth and efficient application processes, but I'm transferring from a Texas community college, so I imagine it would be somewhat more difficult for an international student.

 

[khemist]

I wouldn't think so. Who's to say I'll want to stay at that specific uni for post graduate study? First things first.

From what I understand, it seems to be almost necessary to have research work or internships on your resume in order to get into graduate schools. I am sure people are able to get in without, but it should make your application more appealing.

Not to say that one must do their research and/ or internships at a university. However, in my eyes it would be easier to do the extracurricular at your school, rather than either a) going somewhere else while doing school or b) waiting a couple years to go to grad school to work on the extracurricular activities.

 

[eXorikos]

To be fair, though, KULeuven is definitely very renowned.

Really? :/ You're probably just from Belgium yourself? :p

 

[Angry Citizen]

KULeuven is a very renowned school. And no, I'm not Belgian. It's not MIT, but hell, what is?

 

[Mépris]

Bottom line: There's no very good reason to go to any specific university. Undergrad curricula are standard, they've been so for many years now. I doubt I'd be learning Physics that was different to what my Dad learned in 1971. The key factor then would be a place where one can thrive, and if that fails, a place which one "likes".