Will Black Dwarfs Become Iron Stars in 10^1500 Years?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical future of black dwarfs and whether they could evolve into iron stars over an extremely long timescale of 10^1500 years, particularly in the context of proton decay and nuclear fusion processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the concept of black dwarfs becoming iron stars, noting that most stars do not fuse elements up to iron and that heavy elements are typically expelled during supernovae.
  • Another participant provides a definition of black dwarfs, explaining their formation from white dwarfs and the nature of electron-degenerate matter, while expressing confusion about the idea of iron stars.
  • Some participants speculate that iron stars could form given enough time, but express uncertainty about whether black dwarfs have sufficient energy for further fusion processes.
  • References to Wikipedia suggest that cold fusion via quantum tunneling could lead to the formation of iron nuclei from lighter elements, contingent on the non-occurrence of proton decay.
  • Questions arise about the mechanisms of quantum tunneling and whether it could allow for the splitting of heavier nuclei into lighter ones, with some participants clarifying that fusing lighter nuclei is energetically favorable.
  • One participant imagines the visual and physical characteristics of cold spheres of iron in a distant future universe, raising questions about their appearance and behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether black dwarfs will become iron stars. There are competing ideas about the processes involved and the feasibility of such transformations over the proposed timescale.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks and assumptions about nuclear fusion and decay processes, but these remain unresolved and are contingent on specific conditions such as the fate of protons.

SpaceGuy50
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If the proton does not decay, will black dwarfs become iron stars in 10^1500 years>
 
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First off, what's a black dwarf?

Second, most stars don't even fuse all the elements up to iron.

Third, for the stars that do fuse elements up to iron, the heavy elements are almost always blown off in the ensuing supernova explosion, leaving a neutron star. Again, I don't see any way this neutron star could become an "iron star".
 
From the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dwarf"

A black dwarf is a hypothetical stellar remnant, created when a white dwarf becomes sufficiently cool to no longer emit significant heat or light. Since the time required for a white dwarf to reach this state is calculated to be longer than the current age of the universe of 13.7 billion years, no black dwarfs are expected to exist in the universe yet, and the temperature of the coolest white dwarfs is one observational limit on the age of the universe. A white dwarf is what remains of a main sequence star of low or medium mass (below approximately 9 to 10 solar masses), after it has either expelled or fused all the elements which it has sufficient temperature to fuse.[1] What is left is then a dense ball of electron-degenerate matter which cools slowly by thermal radiation, eventually becoming a black dwarf.[2][3] If black dwarfs were to exist, they would be extremely difficult to detect, since, by definition, they would emit very little radiation. One theory is that they might be detectable through their gravitational influence.[4]

So I don't understand what you mean by iron stars. Black dwarfs are just white dwarfs but dimmer (aka lower in temperature). They are made from and I quote the quote above (might be a first), "electron-degenerate matter".

There is no iron at this step. You've just barely touched the CNO cycle (carbon,nitrogen,oxygen) when a star like our sun becomes a white dwarf.
 
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i think iron stars would be cool as hell, to be honest. and given enough time, i could maybe imagine them possibly forming, although what protonchain and his quote say makes me think that there might not be enough energy within a black dwarf to even fuse protons together, since the electron-degenerate matter has already "fused all the elements which it has sufficient temperature to fuse."

p.s. is proton decay hypothetically like 10^31 years?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe

<<In 10^1500 years, cold fusion occurring via quantum tunnelling should make the light nuclei in ordinary matter fuse into iron-56 nuclei (see isotopes of iron.) Fission and alpha-particle emission should make heavy nuclei also decay to iron, leaving stellar-mass objects as cold spheres of iron.[8]>>

From Wikipedia. That is if proton decay doesn't occur. So presumably that would make black dwarfs become iron stars. Those iron stars would then become neutron stars in 10^10^76 years.
 
SpaceGuy50 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe

<<In 10^1500 years, cold fusion occurring via quantum tunnelling should make the light nuclei in ordinary matter fuse into iron-56 nuclei (see isotopes of iron.) Fission and alpha-particle emission should make heavy nuclei also decay to iron, leaving stellar-mass objects as cold spheres of iron.[8]>>

From Wikipedia. That is if proton decay doesn't occur. So presumably that would make black dwarfs become iron stars. Those iron stars would then become neutron stars in 10^10^76 years.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if quantum tunneling can fuse light nuclei into heavier ones, why can it not cause heavier nuclei to break apart into lighter ones?
 
ideasrule said:
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if quantum tunneling can fuse light nuclei into heavier ones, why can it not cause heavier nuclei to break apart into lighter ones?

Quantum tunneling let's you push through a barrier if there is a lower energy on the other side, in simple terms it let's you borrow energy for a short time. Splitting larger nuclei is not energetically favourable, fusing lighter nuclei does give you energy if you can overcome the barrier.
 
Fusing nuclei is energetically favorable for elements below iron, which is why the process stops at iron. Got it!
 
  • #10
Cold spheres of iron! How would these orbs appear? I understand they could not be seen by human eyes because deep into the Dark Era, there would be no light source to illuminate them. They would not rust because there would be no oxygen to oxidize them. Would they rotate? How big would they be? What color would they be? Imagine piloting an out-of-control time travel device, stranded in this silent, black universe, haunted by these unseen cold speheres of iron. What an image! Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 

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