View Full Version : Moses or Hawkins' Big Bang?
I don’t know about you but I don’t feel intellectually intimidated by a name of “authority” like physicist Stephen Hawkins, specially cos some statements don’t seem to be naïve or childish but really IMBECIL for a man knowing math as he does in his Brief Story of Time, the example of monkeys hammering in typewriters machines, -the bigger part will be litter but occasionally, by mere CHANCE, they will type one of Shakespeare’s sonnets.
Shakespeare’s complete works do have the sonnets pretty much the same size. The initial verse of sonnet 18 is well known: “Shall I compare you to a summer’s day?” which follows the usual 14 lines and ends:
“So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, so long lives this, and this gives life to thee”.
There are 488 letters in the sonnet. Ignoring the spaces between words (like the Bible Code)the chance to type by chance 488 letters and produce this sonnet is 1 in 10 follow by 690 zeros! The enormity of this scale can be notice if we consider after Big Bang there’s 15 billion years, that means only 10 follow by 18 zeros (seconds).
Hence, to write by chance one of Shakespeare’s sonnets it’s required all the monkeys PLUS all the animals of the Earth type in typewriter machines MADE BY ALL IRON OF THE UNIVERSE in a period of time EXCEEDING ENORMOUSLY THE TIME SINCE BIG BANG, even so, the odds are minimum. Trying one chance by second, even a simple sentence with 16 letters demands 2 millions of billion years while the Universe only exists 15 billion years ago…to eliminate all possible combinations.
In XIII Century, Namanides quoted a commentary about Genesis written 600 years before, explaining BEFORE the existence of our universe TIME DIDN’T EXIST. This is due to what is written in Genesis 1:5: “There was an afternoon and morning, day one”. IT WASN’T WRITTEN “FIRST DAY” as stupidly translated in most of the Bibles, because the use of “first” would implied a series already existing of days in a “continuum” of time when truly there was no time before that “DAY ONE”. There was no “before” and not even “after”, there was nothing linked to that day. The subtle difference was not noticed in Jerusalem Bible when we read “first day”, something not happening in Vulgata version translating “Jactunque est vespere et mane, DIES UNUS” in Latin. That day was unique as “day one”. With impeccable logic in all the rest of days of Genesis’ week, are used the ordinal term: second, third, fourth, etc., because from the day two it was already established a series of days, the creation of the universe brought with itself the concomitant creation of time. Hence, commenting about Genesis, both Maimonides and Namanides arrived to the same conclusion and interesting idea: before the creation of the universe, space didn’t exist neither time. The creation of the universe brought not just the time in which it flows but the space in which it expands. I already explained the blackness and vacuum was “ruach elokim” expansive inflation or superhole paying attention to Hebrew words.
In that sense, Hebrew idea wasn’t giving a mythical cow, or “nothingness” opening, or primitive supermaterial linked to a divinity limited to matter existence like Greek gods. Not even in Plato or Aristoteles times their gods could create matter. They were limited by the matter of the Universe and depending on it.
Five hundred years ago, kabalists understood Moses saying God filling eternity, shrank and in that God’s Big Crunch –tsim tsum- there was universal Big Bang expansion. God chose 10 dimensions or aspects to form the universe and included into our universe. 10 times is written “God said” in chapter 1 of Genesis. Kabalists thought only 4 from 10 dimensions are physically measurable while other 6 contracted in submicroscopic dimensions during the 6 days of Creation. So, what Kaku explained in his book HYPERSPACE without saying a word of what I do explain here comes to modern society CENTURIES LATE, I regret to say! The scientists reference to the original space of a “grapefruit” is just a renewed version of kabalists “mustard seed space”. Even in Naimonides times he was aware of Hebrew meaning of the creation STARTING IN THE AFTERNOON AND ENDING IN THE MORNING. Christians ignore the fact, the word “morning” is “boker” in Hebrew and means “distinguished, capable to be distinguish, ORDERED” while “afternoon” is “erev” meaning “confused, mixtured, DISORDERED”. Therefore, what Genesis was saying all the time is creation started in the chaotic entropy of the “afternoon” ending in the quantified order of the “morning”. Usually Christians don’t know either the meaning of the word “yown” translated as “day” and the fact Genesis is talking about simultaneous times using different clocks cos the sequence of events is not the same EVERYWHERE. In Exodus 31:17, Genesis 1:1 and 2:4 we clearly see not only the difference between creative days and THE DAY in which both heaven and Earth WERE MADE from a primordial substance. :wink: Then AFTER when energy from photons dropped to 3000 K degrees, the electrons could have stable orbits around helium and hydrogen nucleus and the photons not only liberated from universal matter (SEPARATED IS THE TERM USED IN THE JEWISH TORAH IN GENESIS BOOK) but also became visible. This fire was in the water and there was water in the fire, not separated as we know in our dimension. It was neo-kabalist brothers Wacholsky did in SFX in one of MATRIX movies making the fire have the attributes of water. More than 99% of Universal mass is under the form of hydrogen and helium, two of the slightest elements of the universe. That is known. But how many of you know when Genesis mentions the Earth was empty and vague it’s used the Hebrew words “tohu” and “bohu”? The most important physicist of particles in fact use the initial T and B (from ToHu and BoHu) as the two main blocs of formation of all matter. The pressure of forces of Big Bang literally did a fussion of this T and B into hydrogen and helium. So much of Hawkins’ expertise!
selfAdjoint
Apr24-04, 07:41 AM
So astronomers discover the expansion of the universe from Einstein's equations, and Hubbel discovers the evidence that the distant galaxies are receding by studying their spectra, and Gamow and Alpher conclude there was a big bang and predict the microwave background, and others discover that background and so we have a consistent theory of expansion supported by evidence.
And only NOW, after popular books have been written about this and brought the theory and its evidence to the public do the Kabbalists proclaim they knew it all along! Where were they in 1850? Even in 1920 they would have been ahead of the curve. Why didn't they proclaim their foreknowledge and predict the expansion or the big bang then? Why?
UltraPi1
Apr24-04, 08:21 AM
If the Big Bang turns out to be entirely wrong, and I do believe it is. Then a discussion about who said what and when - Stands mute.
And only NOW, after popular books have been written about this and brought the theory and its evidence to the public do the Kabbalists proclaim they knew it all along! Where were they in 1850? Even in 1920 they would have been ahead of the curve. Why didn't they proclaim their foreknowledge and predict the expansion or the big bang then? Why?
Even intuitively, if everything did not just pop into existence all at once without reason or cause or Creator, this would imply an expansion from a single point. And I fail to see what would have prevented anyone at any time from proposing this.:cool:
Even intuitively, if everything did not just pop into existence all at once without reason or cause or Creator, this would imply an expansion from a single point. And I fail to see what would have prevented anyone at any time from proposing this.:cool:
It is interesting to think that all the mathematics that will ever exist has been here the whole time, and that we had not be aware of it?:)
One point( a portal for expression ), might have been the beginning of any universe or idea, and lead into many possibilties. Some might have called it Venn logic after such an expression or Feynmann's pathways derived from the Dirac Matrices.
But where oh where, is this vast reservoir of knowledge hiding and ones asks what Lie Beneath. Where are the seeds of all knowledge drawn from?
So where is this place, where all this math is hiding and one might soon ask, what form of math shall arise where such a universe might arise? Where such a point can begin. If such things are going to be entertained, then what value shall we place on consiousness and what is called Cognitive Mathematics?
I had raised this issue in Cubist Art and the Monte Carlo effect, because it might have revealled a direct expression geometrically from the ideas of how quantum gravity might have been built?
Looking for this same geometrization is what I was looking for in string/Mtheory. If this consistancy is found will it show a higher dimensional value aS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS CONSISTANCY? I believe it will:)
Sometimes artist renditions, are at the forefront, and truly, these were the better visualists of mathematical interpretation and exploration? Susskind saw the value of a looped string?:)
Can a direct relationship be drawn between PI and Pascal's triangle? If such probabilistic determinations are spoken to in what can be expressed, then the marble drop raises possibilties?
Tom Mattson
Apr24-04, 02:21 PM
Who the heck is 'Hawkins'? :tongue:
selfAdjoint
Apr24-04, 04:41 PM
He means Stephen Hawkings.
Selfadjoint: I don't know where were the interest of the people, but you can always check what Naimonides explained centuries ago in your local library. It's not my fault if millions of Christians (including some readers) didn't invest time to remove spider web from their Bibles to check the string theory in Job 38:31. This text for instance was already translated before Hawkins. It's not my fault if they ignore Hebrew. Of course, I can go with this forever teaching about the concept of zero of the Mayas and Hindus before your greatgreatgrandpa was born, but I wonder WHAT do you really know about this? No, I better don't insist, I could break the rules of this forum and you will start to insult me. I'll better stop right here.
By the way, kabalah was forbidden by Catholic church, the dominant defender of "science" in case you didn't learn that in school.
I'm saying before the Big Bang the kaballah says there was God's Big Crunch, something science hasn't conclude yet. You can always check what is "tsim tsum" in case you really wanna research and do homework and know the TIME this was taught.
You can also search what was Einstein's source to make his equations and you will be surprise, even to find the famous formula E=Mc2 origin decades before him and his pantheistic vision. Don't forget he was a Jew writing letters with the Hebrew name of God.But I don't pretend to demonstrate that fact. It's up to you since you ask "where" and "when".
www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Rethinking_Relativity.htm
www.nobel.se/physics/educational/relativity/history-1.html
www.geocities.com/antonioferrigno/relativity.html
http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/AEGRBook.htm
http://users.net.yu/~mrp/chapter28.html
Perhaps reading will help you understand the formula Einstein used existed at least 17 years before and was presented to the public 5 days before him. Then again, it's pretty obvious people memorize formulas but don't know too much about history, a problem shared with Michio Kaku too. As a theorists mathematician is bad historian!
Not enough?, dig that:
http://web2.iadfw.net/nptbs/doc/E'sNP.doc
www.geocities.com/wlodekj/sci/gravity.htm
www.geocities.com/wlodekj/sci/illusion.htm
Not all people is coinvinced about the expansion of the universe, it could well be an illusion created because the curvature of the space as it's explained, I hope you read and learn.
Consider the dark energy was explained centuries ago and known by kabalists forbidden by Catholic Church. If you read Isaiah 45:7 says in Hebrew the word "hoshek" (darkness) being the REAL CREATION OF GOD ("create" in Hebrew is "barah") and different from "form". Hence, the text is saying darkness was not abscense of light but real creation while light was formed because of that pre-existing black fire. In the Jewish idea there was God's Big Crunch called "tsim tsum" and the "ruach elokim" and vacuum or vague darkness of Genesis 1:1,2 was the super black hole as inflationary event. Hindus believed in Big Bang-Big Crunch scenario related to Brahma's own body swelling or collapsing with universe which was part of himself. Eventually now astronomers and physicist do believe we have to replace the Big Crunch or Big Bang ending of the universe into the Big Rip ending like a whimper in an endless sea of space.
www.cox-internet.com/hermital/holopara1-4.htm
www.icr.org/pubs/btg-a/btg-174a.htm
By the way, this "recent discoveries" were not known when physicist and theologist, Gerald L.Schroeder formed in Massachusetts Institute of Technology mentioned the issue "blak fire" in 1990 in his book "Genesis and the Big Bang, The Discovery of Harmony Between Modern Science and the Bible".
For the skepticals who still believe Jewish people have been as ignorant as Christians, my advice is check Onkelos translation -based upon Hebrew texts- of the Torah (Translations of Torah) WRITTEN 1800 YEARS AGO considering the order coming out of chaos using the expression "it was UNIFIED ORDER" in Genesis 1:31 as taken from Hebrew words of "morning" (order) after the "afternoon" (chaos) and not before. This translation was made BEFORE THE GREEK WORDS "CHAOS" AND "KOSMOS" WERE EVER WRITTEN FOR THE FIRST TIME. The problem with American education is you choose the areas you wanna study at the university and even a moron if he (she) is a good sportman can be "graduated" in the university. So, we can have a nice chat with a mathematician or physicist who doesn't know where the hell is his (her) city. BRAVO!
By the way, the physicist Schroeder I quoted before, knows Hebrew and that language and Jewish legacy was the fundament of his book written 14 years ago rather than Christian wrong ideas.
Dayle Record
Apr25-04, 09:31 AM
I am out of my element here. But I am going to type anyway. The Hindus have this concept called Prana. This is the in and out breath. It is a central theme. Their vedas go back more than a hundred thousand years, as they mark their yugas in twenty five thousand year increments.
I was looking at this horn shape postulated for the shape of the Universe. I was thinking that this was the perfect thing. If there were a big bang, or a rushing outward from a central point, then; perhaps we span out of that and this long form that might even twist around other similar events. like a giant rope. But maybe one of the outward forces of that form is the closure of the bang original location, behind the event. Maybe the black hole is the tear we make in space time as we propel forward , but it travels forward with us to on one hand pushing the matter forward, and at the same time redevouring the matter at the tail of the phenomenon. This was the first thought.
This takes me back to prana, maybe these big forms (these universess) go back and forth, blow out, and then are taken back up and the collapse of the whole thing recreates the potential from which the big bangs occur. This would make Prana, that breathing in and out, and would remain as one of those knowledges, whose scientific basis was lost, but persisted in myth.
I am never going to get over Carlos Casteneda, and his purported discussions with the arbiters of eternity. But there was a discussion of the "Eagle", an immense darkness that the sages compared to an Eagle that took all energy and flattened it with its beak, and then reconsumed it. The knowlege of existence was its food.
So I see this great seething orb of dark intensity where, everything is compressed. Then there is almost an ideation that streams out to become a long tubular universe stretched to the limit of its energy, and resistance, blooming of sorts, and then falling back to reabsorption, and rebirth. This is almost as if the act of becomming were of more weight than being, though there is plenty of being in the process. It is just temporary on such a grand scale, that we perceive it as ancient.
Scientists are reaching to a point in which rather than having a cocky-peacock attitude they should research all ancient wisdom. Egyptians and Incas and other civilizations always associated Sun with feather-snake. Check:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3226844.stm
So if the Sun changes its "skin" like a snake, why the universe can't do something similar?
selfAdjoint
Apr25-04, 01:56 PM
And why can't we all rely on that chicken named George, mentioned as a possible creator of the universe by Johnny Carson? Just because bunk is old doesn't mean it's not bunk. And BTW, the Maya weren't an extremely old civilization, they got their start in around 500 of the Christian Era. This is in spite of their calendar having an extremely old start date. That's a common trick and means nothing. The Maya were preceded by the Olmecs, but we have almost nothing from that civilization. At least the real archeologists don't; I'm sure the cranks have all kinds of stuff.
So, to oscar, and perhaps Dayle Record: if these ancient tomes (tombs?) hold such deep knowledge, how about a few concrete predictions? Fame and fortune will surely follow, if you get it right!
A few warm-ups:
- nature of inflation (read Guth (http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Guth/Guth_contents.html) for some background), e.g. one inflationary episode or two?
- mass of the Higgs
- mass of the lightest SUSY particle
- mass of the non-zero mass neutrino(s)
- nature of dark matter
- nature of dark energy
- when life first arose on Mars (or firm prediction that it didn't, and so no fossil evidence will be found there)
- nature of extinct life on Mars
- ditto, Io and Ganymede (and Callisto?) oceans
- detailed connection between the Ediacara biota and the Cambrian explosion; in particular the number of Ediacara phyla/divisions which went extinct
- number and location (RA and dec will do) of all pre-historic supernovae seen on Earth (not counting those recorded by Chinese, Korean and other far-Eastern observers)
- size of the geoditic and frame-dragging effects that Gravity Probe B will observe
Selfadjoint: You're beating around the bush. I gave specific information you can search about. When I say old civilization, it's exactly this if you compare what you think is "modern" knowledge, let's say 1500 years from now. I say Mayas' knowledge but I didn't say they were the ones who invented the system. They recognized the information came as "inspiration" so all math codes are related to their gods, you can reject this or not, but that's a fact. Olmecas indeed influenced them and the Aztecs before them. But if you recognize we almost don't know anything about them I wonder how come you wanna lecture me? If you think those important sacred numbers means "nothing" is cos you probably are uninformed some calendars were even more exact in seconds than "modern" Western information, specially about Venus. O course that means nothing to a guy who is too proud about modern calculations having Hubble and giant telescopes and modern acelerator devices compared with people who didn't have magnified glasses! That's arrogant behaviour Michio Kaku didn't have nor astronomer Sten Odenwald whose book I recomend you to read in behalf of science, of course. I would like to give you more answers if you can say to me WHY DID THEY CHOOSE A FANTASTIC ALGARITMIC NUMBER OF 23 040 000 000 DAYS, A PERIOD OF 63 080 082 YEARS WHILE SUMERIANS USED A STARTING NUMBER 12 960 000 WHICH DECREASED UNTIL REACHING 60 rather than beginning with 10 (fingers) and go increasing? If you answer the riddle perhaps I will continue answering to you why the proud knowledge you think is worthy us just based upon what you consider 'nothing' in ignorance. Of course, I know what is gonna happen. I have seen your attitude since you first adressed to me. Since you are the "moderator" after a while you're gonna get mad and will wipe me off.
Nereid: you're asking me to respond thing with pretty "modern" names. I tell you at least some new you probably are not informed. First I will ask you, "did you read the texts in the Bible that I quoted mentioning "string theory" linked to Pleiads and Orion constelation, the poetic texts using the word "hugg" meaning "circular in all directions" regarding to the Earth in Isaiah 40:22, the modern expression "nothingness" regarding the Earth hanging on that "nothingness" in Job 26:7, the creation of "dark matter" in Isaiah 45:7 different from "forming" the light? Or the explanation given by kabalist 1800 years ago about inflationary event? I know why you ask in this CYNICAL WAY, cos you wanna be proud of your "knowledge" using words that have too much meaning for your neo-sacred cow. I have said the nature of the dark matter already but you haven't read cos you probably JUMP upon information, read again to acknowledge what I have already written. I will gladly continue the conversation but you ask me for example about Mars. I will tell you more information about Mars' past ancient knowledge from Nasa source if you answer to me WHY DID NASA CHOOSE THE NAME OF MARTIAN LOCAL 'CYDONIA'? Do you think it is simply randomic choice selection? Take care, my friend, cos if you know too much about physics, and I can see you're indeed very limited regarding ancient knowledge, maybe you think Im' just a New Age reader. No, my dear friends. Be careful before answering any stupid question cos I can give you the exact Pathfinder information, even pages and authors and scientists in order to clarify your skeptical doubts (or may I say your cynical questions?). Do you think the Mayas cared about your theories or care about the pretty names you give like "gluons"? HA-HA-HA!
*SNIP
Nereid: you're asking me to respond thing with pretty "modern" names. I tell you at least some new you probably are not informed. First I will ask you, "did you read the texts in the Bible that I quoted mentioning "string theory" linked to Pleiads and Orion constelation, the poetic texts using the word "hugg" meaning "circular in all directions" regarding to the Earth in Isaiah 40:22, the modern expression "nothingness" regarding the Earth hanging on that "nothingness" in Job 26:7, the creation of "dark matter" in Isaiah 45:7 different from "forming" the light? Or the explanation given by kabalist 1800 years ago about inflationary event? I know why you ask in this CYNICAL WAY, cos you wanna be proud of your "knowledge" using words that have too much meaning for your neo-sacred cow. I have said the nature of the dark matter already but you haven't read cos you probably JUMP upon information, read again to acknowledge what I have already written. I will gladly continue the conversation but you ask me for example about Mars. I will tell you more information about Mars' past ancient knowledge from Nasa source if you answer to me WHY DID NASA CHOOSE THE NAME OF MARTIAN LOCAL 'CYDONIA'? Do you think it is simply randomic choice selection? Take care, my friend, cos if you know too much about physics, and I can see you're indeed very limited regarding ancient knowledge, maybe you think Im' just a New Age reader. No, my dear friends. Be careful before answering any stupid question cos I can give you the exact Pathfinder information, even pages and authors and scientists in order to clarify your skeptical doubts (or may I say your cynical questions?). Do you think the Mayas cared about your theories or care about the pretty names you give like "gluons"? HA-HA-HA!oscar,
You are the one making the claims, not me. It is incumbent upon you to butress your claims and proposals, and answer my questions; they are your assertions, not mine. If I make assertions, I expect (and hope) that you will ask questions, challenge, probe, and otherwise test the proposals which I make.
I have suggested that there is a sure-fired (is that how you say it in the USofA?) way for you to gain fame and fortune; namely by showing that the ancient texts do indeed contain great wisdom about the deepest aspects of physics and the way the universe works ... all you have to do is use your deep insight into the meanings of those texts to make some concrete, testable predictions. Further, I suggested to you several predictions that would knock the sox off the high energy physics, astronomy and cosmology communities. If your claim is as deep as you say, I would expect that you will be working feverishly, night and day, to make even just one of these predictions, so great would the impact on the world of modern science be.
Nothing cynical; just think of me as from Missouri ("show me").
Oh, and I forgot to mention this oscar: AFAIK, NASA does not, and CANNOT, name features on the planets and their moons; that's the role of the IAU.
Cydonia? It's Latin, a poetic name of Crete. If you search on the web, I think you'll find that the IAU approved the name in 1958.
Kind regards
Nereid
selfAdjoint
Apr25-04, 09:33 PM
Bravo Nereid!
Small detail. It's sure-fire, not sure-fired. Certain to fire. Like a gun, in the old black powder days, that was guaranteed to shoot and not fizzle (AKA "hang fire").
Why is this still in a science related forum? Granted, there is no religious grasping at straws forum, but this might be suited better somewhere else.
All genetic information is decoded at the speed of light by RNA messenger which combines DNA “letters” into 3 letter “words”. Nobody knows why Hebrew root-letters are built by 3 letter-words different from Acadian language using 1 or more syllables. Hebrew alphabet is 22 letters which is the number of chromosomes adding the sexual X and Y.
The sacred INTITAL number of Sumerians was 12.960.000 (Read T.G.Pinches’ SOME MATHEMATICAL TABLETS OF THE BRITISH MUSEUM). The cuneiform scripture was like Chinese and identified like math Frank Rampsey’s codes. Sumerians got a¸2+b¸2=c¸2 , their Nippur Calendar system was not merely using 60 but A COMBINATION of 6 and 10 ALTERING THEM:
1
10
10x6
(10x6)x10
(10x6x10)x6
The “digital” system upon 10 fingers it’s obvious but not 6. The astronomical # decreased until reaching 216.000 part, which is 60. The # represents 500 complete precession circles in 12 Zodiac houses but how did they imagine that if just 1 house demanded a fantastic time never witnessed by generations of Sumerians one after another to watch the sky? The # is 25.920 years, why choosing such number or the degree in celestial circle, 360 degrees? 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30 while 10 is divisible by 2, 4, 5, 10, 20 and 25. WE INHERITED 12 months, 12 Zodiac houses, 12 hours by day and 12 by night because of them. Greeks just imported some knowledge known by Arabian people who learned in Mesopotamia and the Hitites and the Hurrites from Haran, Abraham’s land. Hence the Olympus gods, etc. Sacred Sumerian number was 3600 great circle or “shar”. That’s square of 60 allowing our “modern” definition of 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour though this is meaningless to our “moderator”!!!!!!!!! Greeks just repeated what was already known about golden rule in architecture and helped to find Fibonacci numbers in 15th Century. So, Copernicus, the so-called “father” of modern astronomy was a researcher who did well his homework re-checking what was known 2000 years BEFORE HIM. Specially the ones before Ptolomeus, like Hiparcus and Aristarcos from Samos. This Hiparcus lived in Minor Asia in 2 B.C. and argued about the solstice and equinox sign or equinox precession. Yet the phenomena can only be explained due to sphere astronomy when Earth is surrounded by other celestial bodies, like a sphere among sphere universe, yet the passage of a single house is 2160 years. Eudoxius from Cnido also lived in the same Minor Asia 2 centuries before Hiparcus and drew celestial sphere, one of the copies was set in Rome, Atlas holding the world upon the shoulders. The drawing of the sphere represented the Zodiac constellations. But if Eudoxius imagined heaven like a sphere, where was Earth related to heaven? Did he think Earth was flat or an sphere –something explained in Jewish books of Isaiah and Ezra-? Eudoxius and Hiparcus lived in Hitites land. Among their gods there was a procession of bull-men Atlas holding a globe. Hiparcus indeed mentioned his mentors were Babylonian astronomers from Erech, Borsippa and Babylon. Historian Diodorus Sículo (1 B.C) confirmed the Babylonian exactitude regarding astronomy. Hence, this means nothing from the moderator cos he is completely IGNORANT about history paying attention too much about what he already knows about math which is product of a progressive accumulation of data through time and not because modern “wisdom” as he supposed memorizing formulas.
Mayas had the zero conceptions as Hindus but that also means “nothing” in his own words. Mayas had the concept of “place” starting with the column 1 “kin” and 20 in the next “uinal” until the multiples reached the fantastic 23.040.000.000 days or 63.080.082 years. Number 52 and 260 were sacred (in Apocalipsis the sacred number 7 appears 52 times and kabalah reduce the digits, 5+2=7). This 52 wasn’t just a result of 13x4 but 52 weeks in Middle East calendar (LATER ON COPIED IN EUROPEAN CALENDARS), that is if we talk about 7 days week, something studied during centuries and believed to have relation with 4 phases of the Moon though Mr. Moderator knows nothing about this probably. That 7, Mr, was already known in Hebrew Sabbath and Sumerian “bars”. Other sacred number was 260, multiple of 52 (52x5=260). 52 was sacred in Egypt and linked to Egyptian god of math and astronomy and writing, Toth. We know that relation with 52 cos the reference in papyri Cairo # 30646 of the myth called “The Adventures of Satni-Khamasis with the Mummies”. And the feathered-snake representation was equivalent to Maya’s god Kukulcán or Quetzalcoatl who also offered the Calendar of 52 to all people in Mesoamerica. Precisely the angle of 52 degrees used in Gizeh pyramids in Egypt demanded familiarity with Pi factor π , it was obtained giving the height of the pyramid (H) equal to half of the side (S) divided by Pi and multiplied by 4. The angle of 43,5 degrees was also used in Teotihuacan pyramids and not something easier like 45 degrees. Yet, there’s no reason for that choice in Mesoamerica.
www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2.htm
Hence, “pyramidiotic” Freemason Newton, had good reasons to send his friend to measure Great Pyramid in Egypt in order to use them for his own calculations about Earth’s dimension. Therefore, I’m not panic when I receive cynical questions and special addressed coments by Moderator and other pals, they get angry cos the implications of knowing this, something completely ignored by books like Hyperspace written by Michio Kaku. The mathematicians want to give the reader the impression we know so much cos “modern” understanding to inflate like Big Bang expansion of their own superegos! Yet I can check the and read between lines the “shift” and Doppler effect of that attitude. Read now or record this information for further research cos in a while the administration is gonna eliminate me and the information.
Ancient people gave vital information and cryptographic codes. Everybody have been discussing about the Apocaliptic number 666 applied to historical names. Yet that is part of the truth, just a piece of the puzzle. The verse immediately after that (Apoc 13:18; 14:1) gives another number, 144.000. Both are linked. Not only cos in kabala you can reduce the digits 6+6+6=18, 1+8=9; 1+4+4=9 but cos that number 9 was also a sacred number. 144 was the number of jewels in Tutankamon’s dress, he was the main jewel completing the 144, a number appearing in Maya’s forehead (statues of Pacal Lord) though they didn’t use those numerals! You can read more about in Maurice Cotterell’s book, The Lost Tomb of Viracocha. This has a lot to do with light and Sun and math so I’m not beating around the bush. Those people were heliolaters, Sun worshippers. 144.000 was also part of Baktun Maya’s calendar. I have said Einstein copied the famous formula E=Mc² already existing at least 17 years before and presented to the public by someone else 5 days earlier. Yet the speed of light 299.792,5 km per second only applies in vacuum space and STRAIGHT LINE, but if you calculate in angular degrees it’s 144.000 MINUTES OF AN ARC PER SECOND. That means the light goes through the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH in exact 6,66 times per second.
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/bruce.html
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/brucea.html
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/bruceb.html
That means in subatomic world, the complete circle of the electron is not 360 degrees but 720 degrees! In the angular measurement the values of minute of an arc and the unities of time is 27 per each Earth spinning, is the key of the secret. This was an information even governments wanted to know and asked New Zeland Bruce Cathie researcher. Of course, it’s understandable if I mention the Sun magnetism and ancient knowledge about this, our dear Moderator doesn’t have anyone to moderate him and he will make cynical comments like “that’s nothing” even IGNORING ABSOLUTELY the work made by Jeff Mayo and professor Hans Eysenck from Psychiatry London Institute and the genetic team from Medical Navy Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, led by Dr, A.R.Lieboff, about how come magnetic fields cause mutations at the very instant of conception and Maurice Cotterel’s own discovery of 12 kinds of radiation acting in a sequence every year bombing Van Allen belts, causing 12 types of magnetic modulation corresponding to 12 types of personality. Even to be skeptical you gotta search and read, that’s the path of a scientific mind. Even though you can see Mr. Hawkins, for example, not only used an idiotic “chance” argument of life in the universe against all math he knows (and that’s why his comment is cynical as well!)but whenever he wants and even choosing what scientific arguments he can reject (let’s say about Thorne’s wormholes) to propose even more fantastic and personal wormholes theory!!!! In the name of sacred-cow science, of course.
About my answers. I gave a lot of details and information for everyone to search. You haven't answered that.You make other questions in reference to modern days and modern names as if you expect ancient people would have our modern interest and similar names. That's why I say your questions are CYNICAL.
You fail to give an answer about the name of Mars. The name is not CRETE, sir. The name was not baptized CRETE but specifically "Cydonia". It's like saying that because John is the equivalent of Juan in Spanish or João in Portuguese should be the same. Since your answer is incorrect you will not receive additional answer. And even if that was the case -and it's not- you fail to give the reasons for choosing such name is specific location on Mars surface. So, WRONG AGAIN!
BTW, Mayas, Incas, Sumerians, Egyptian people were not interested in all the names of subparticles or theories that may be just that.
BTW, if you check the site:
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/prometheus.htm
You will see the reference (obviously you did some homework AFTER I asked the question about Mars, unless you want us to think you remember even the year of the "baptism" of the name) of your Cydonia/Crete goes beyond that and it's said in the site, that is the "official" records of IAU say. You can see the important reference of Masonic membership which includes people from IAU and NASA, just like old astronaut Mr. Glenn. Getting close, but at this time I already have revealed something of the secret for the readers who wanna keep on searching beyond your cultural limitations. I know for sure about this since I have personal contact with Nasa consultant and ex member of Russia' Space equivalent. But I won't give names to you, he-he-he!
Yet, I repeat, since you fail to give the proper answers about the name and why the choice of that name (specially in the context of what I have written about ancient knowledge) you just don't deserve further explanation. Do your homework. I have written enough for you to digest til the kingdom comes...Mr, Moderator, HA!
Mr.Eh: obviously you were caught by the title of this theme "Moses or Hawkings' Big Bang", hence, you are here. If you check other participants of the forum you would realize many people have been discussing if this math theories are not just philosophy disguised. It's not just me who have adressed the idea. I'm mentioning specif names taken from Hebrew and Greek and other math codes of ancient people and things that now are being rediscovered. If you think that is not scientific information you must be blind or narrow minded. In fact, everytime we read something about astronomy or math theories there's always the Greek historical context and nobody seems to have problems with the fact Greeks associated that knowledge with philosophy and their gods. Now if learning about other cultures who mingled science with myth incomodate you, that's your own lack of perspective and you can always withdraw, but it seems many other readers are liking the issue if you check the numbers. Moses as written in the theme was not a scientist so why the heck you entered here in first place? Just to say, okey dokey, let's put it somewhere else?
*SNIP (to get under the 10k char limit)
The # is 25.920 years, why choosing such number or the degree in celestial circle, 360 degrees? 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30 while 10 is divisible by 2, 4, 5, 10, 20 and 25. WE INHERITED 12 months, 12 Zodiac houses, 12 hours by day and 12 by night because of them. Greeks just imported some knowledge known by Arabian people who learned in Mesopotamia and the Hitites and the Hurrites from Haran, Abraham’s land. Hence the Olympus gods, etc. Sacred Sumerian number was 3600 great circle or “shar”. That’s square of 60 allowing our “modern” definition of 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour though this is meaningless to our “moderator”!!!!!!!!! Greeks just repeated what was already known about golden rule in architecture and helped to find Fibonacci numbers in 15th Century. So, Copernicus, the so-called “father” of modern astronomy was a researcher who did well his homework re-checking what was known 2000 years BEFORE HIM. Specially the ones before Ptolomeus, like Hiparcus and Aristarcos from Samos. This Hiparcus lived in Minor Asia in 2 B.C. and argued about the solstice and equinox sign or equinox precession. Yet the phenomena can only be explained due to sphere astronomy when Earth is surrounded by other celestial bodies, like a sphere among sphere universe, yet the passage of a single house is 2160 years. Eudoxius from Cnido also lived in the same Minor Asia 2 centuries before Hiparcus and drew celestial sphere, one of the copies was set in Rome, Atlas holding the world upon the shoulders. The drawing of the sphere represented the Zodiac constellations. But if Eudoxius imagined heaven like a sphere, where was Earth related to heaven? Did he think Earth was flat or an sphere –something explained in Jewish books of Isaiah and Ezra-? Eudoxius and Hiparcus lived in Hitites land. Among their gods there was a procession of bull-men Atlas holding a globe. Hiparcus indeed mentioned his mentors were Babylonian astronomers from Erech, Borsippa and Babylon. Historian Diodorus Sículo (1 B.C) confirmed the Babylonian exactitude regarding astronomy. Hence, this means nothing from the moderator cos he is completely IGNORANT about history paying attention too much about what he already knows about math which is product of a progressive accumulation of data through time and not because modern “wisdom” as he supposed memorizing formulas.
Mayas had the zero conceptions as Hindus but that also means “nothing” in his own words. Mayas had the concept of “place” starting with the column 1 “kin” and 20 in the next “uinal” until the multiples reached the fantastic 23.040.000.000 days or 63.080.082 years. Number 52 and 260 were sacred (in Apocalipsis the sacred number 7 appears 52 times and kabalah reduce the digits, 5+2=7). This 52 wasn’t just a result of 13x4 but 52 weeks in Middle East calendar (LATER ON COPIED IN EUROPEAN CALENDARS), that is if we talk about 7 days week, something studied during centuries and believed to have relation with 4 phases of the Moon though Mr. Moderator knows nothing about this probably. That 7, Mr, was already known in Hebrew Sabbath and Sumerian “bars”. Other sacred number was 260, multiple of 52 (52x5=260). 52 was sacred in Egypt and linked to Egyptian god of math and astronomy and writing, Toth. We know that relation with 52 cos the reference in papyri Cairo # 30646 of the myth called “The Adventures of Satni-Khamasis with the Mummies”. And the feathered-snake representation was equivalent to Maya’s god Kukulcán or Quetzalcoatl who also offered the Calendar of 52 to all people in Mesoamerica. Precisely the angle of 52 degrees used in Gizeh pyramids in Egypt demanded familiarity with Pi factor π , it was obtained giving the height of the pyramid (H) equal to half of the side (S) divided by Pi and multiplied by 4. The angle of 43,5 degrees was also used in Teotihuacan pyramids and not something easier like 45 degrees. Yet, there’s no reason for that choice in Mesoamerica.
www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2.htm
Hence, “pyramidiotic” Freemason Newton, had good reasons to send his friend to measure Great Pyramid in Egypt in order to use them for his own calculations about Earth’s dimension. Therefore, I’m not panic when I receive cynical questions and special addressed coments by Moderator and other pals, they get angry cos the implications of knowing this, something completely ignored by books like Hyperspace written by Michio Kaku. The mathematicians want to give the reader the impression we know so much cos “modern” understanding to inflate like Big Bang expansion of their own superegos! Yet I can check the and read between lines the “shift” and Doppler effect of that attitude. Read now or record this information for further research cos in a while the administration is gonna eliminate me and the information.
Ancient people gave vital information and cryptographic codes. Everybody have been discussing about the Apocaliptic number 666 applied to historical names. Yet that is part of the truth, just a piece of the puzzle. The verse immediately after that (Apoc 13:18; 14:1) gives another number, 144.000. Both are linked. Not only cos in kabala you can reduce the digits 6+6+6=18, 1+8=9; 1+4+4=9 but cos that number 9 was also a sacred number. 144 was the number of jewels in Tutankamon’s dress, he was the main jewel completing the 144, a number appearing in Maya’s forehead (statues of Pacal Lord) though they didn’t use those numerals! You can read more about in Maurice Cotterell’s book, The Lost Tomb of Viracocha. This has a lot to do with light and Sun and math so I’m not beating around the bush. Those people were heliolaters, Sun worshippers. 144.000 was also part of Baktun Maya’s calendar. I have said Einstein copied the famous formula E=Mc² already existing at least 17 years before and presented to the public by someone else 5 days earlier. Yet the speed of light 299.792,5 km per second only applies in vacuum space and STRAIGHT LINE, but if you calculate in angular degrees it’s 144.000 MINUTES OF AN ARC PER SECOND. That means the light goes through the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH in exact 6,66 times per second.
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/bruce.html
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/brucea.html
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/bruceb.html
That means in subatomic world, the complete circle of the electron is not 360 degrees but 720 degrees! In the angular measurement the values of minute of an arc and the unities of time is 27 per each Earth spinning, is the key of the secret. This was an information even governments wanted to know and asked New Zeland Bruce Cathie researcher. Of course, it’s understandable if I mention the Sun magnetism and ancient knowledge about this, our dear Moderator doesn’t have anyone to moderate him and he will make cynical comments like “that’s nothing” even IGNORING ABSOLUTELY the work made by Jeff Mayo and professor Hans Eysenck from Psychiatry London Institute and the genetic team from Medical Navy Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, led by Dr, A.R.Lieboff, about how come magnetic fields cause mutations at the very instant of conception and Maurice Cotterel’s own discovery of 12 kinds of radiation acting in a sequence every year bombing Van Allen belts, causing 12 types of magnetic modulation corresponding to 12 types of personality. Even to be skeptical you gotta search and read, that’s the path of a scientific mind. Even though you can see Mr. Hawkins, for example, not only used an idiotic “chance” argument of life in the universe against all math he knows (and that’s why his comment is cynical as well!)but whenever he wants and even choosing what scientific arguments he can reject (let’s say about Thorne’s wormholes) to propose even more fantastic and personal wormholes theory!!!! In the name of sacred-cow science, of course.
About my answers. I gave a lot of details and information for everyone to search. You haven't answered that.You make other questions in reference to modern days and modern names as if you expect ancient people would have our modern interest and similar names. That's why I say your questions are CYNICAL.
You fail to give an answer about the name of Mars. The name is not CRETE, sir. The name was not baptized CRETE but specifically "Cydonia". It's like saying that because John is the equivalent of Juan in Spanish or João in Portuguese should be the same. Since your answer is incorrect you will not receive additional answer. And even if that was the case -and it's not- you fail to give the reasons for choosing such name is specific location on Mars surface. So, WRONG AGAIN!
BTW, Mayas, Incas, Sumerians, Egyptian people were not interested in all the names of subparticles or theories that may be just that.
(emphasis added) [... show] that the ancient texts do indeed contain great wisdom about the deepest aspects of physics and the way the universe works ... all you have to do is use your deep insight into the meanings of those texts to make some concrete, testable predictions. Further, I suggested to you several predictions that would knock the sox off the high energy physics, astronomy and cosmology communities. If your claim is as deep as you say, I would expect that you will be working feverishly, night and day, to make even just one of these predictions, so great would the impact on the world of modern science be.I'm (still) waiting for a specific, concrete, testable prediction. :smile: Preferably in the fields of high energy physics, astronomy, or cosmology.
And I still say you gotta do your research. The Mayas predicted a Solar eclipse with 1000 years anticipation. That's certainly a prediction! They mentioned transformations regarding the Sun by the year 2012/2013 and the discoveries about solar system transformation in magnetic fields and related to magnetic storms, brighter planets, recent pole shifts 40 or 50% offset in Uranus and Neptune, etc, as interpeted by Russian Alexei Dmitriev (Russian Technology Academy of Science in Siberia) and Mike Lockwood were based upon Maya language. Those Solar changes affecting the whole system are right in front of your eyes even surprising people of SOHO. In fact some planets today we're just "discovering" it's not something new by the ones who know Sumerian clay cilinders and cuneiform tablets.
I have said something science has not discovered, a Big Crunch BEFORE Big Bang and even the nature of dark matter as something of a fire acting like water and viceversa. For thousands of years the ancient people gave importance to solar gods depicted as snakes and it's someting the people stdying myths (like J.Campbell) gave funny interprations associated with archetypes. So, for the people who know those ancient things it's not SURPRISE AT ALL these "modern" prediction:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3226844.stm
Even more, people who have study the Avenue of the Dead have actually concrete data information (measurable) about planets like Uranus and Neptune that were "discovered" in recent times, very common 3D temples representing what is on heavens.
DrChinese
Apr26-04, 11:38 AM
Who the heck is 'Hawkins'? :tongue:
From John Baez's Crackpot Index:
8. 5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".
I am amazed this occurs so often that Baez was able to pick up on this.
Antonio Lao
Apr26-04, 11:48 AM
Continuous space (S) is related to matter (m) by the following simple formula:
S = mc^3
where c is the speed of light in vacuum. This says that whenever matter moves space is created and since everything in the universe is in a state of motion space is constantly being created hence the universe is observed to be expanding.
Antonio Lao
Apr26-04, 11:59 AM
Making the expansion worse is by that S = cE . Whenever the energetic photons move, space is also created.
Dr. Chinese: sorry about the spelling. I don't have time to correct my postings and I gotta do it quickly.
I was asked more measurable details and predictions. So, here I go:
www.siloam.net/jenkins/5thsun2.html
www.siloam.net/jenkins/ambilac.html
www.siloam.net/jenkins/index2.html#bottom
http://ancientegypt.hypermart.net/lostsecrets
http://starryskies.com/The_sky/constellations/draco.html
http://geology.wcupa.edu/mgagne/ess362/homework/constellations/draco.htm
www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/constellations/constellations/Ursa_Minor.html
Mr. Moderator says it's his duty to avoid speculations, BUT THE WHOLE FORUM IS FILLED TO THE TOP WITH CONTRADICTORY THEORIES AND SPECULATIONS and he wants to oversee particularly MINE. I'm not insulting. If he is ignorant about many things that is not an insult neither a sin. Yet, if someone doesn't know and yet dares to ironize something he ignores and indeed doesn't have any interest to learn and before hand with prejuidice attitude says this is "nothing" I let the readers decide and judge. Pretty easy TO TALK NOW ABOUT STRING THEORY AND ASK FOR MORE DETAILS AND PREDICTIONS WHILE EVERYBODY'S BIBLE WAS ALREADY SAYING ORION AND PLEIADS ARE IN FACT TIED TO 'STRING' OR ROPES in Job 38:31, now all of us can discuss about gravity (AND THE SPECULATION ABOUT GRAVITONS though for Einstein gravity is just an illusion) AND 'NOTHINGNESS' while the very same words are written in relation to Earth and vacuum in Job 26:7!!!!!!!!!!
So, that is speculation or am I not writing specific information? Do I have to give credit to Michio Kaku or modern theorists just because THEY IGNORED SUCH TEXT while they were repeating Christian dogmas for centuries? The same sort of attitude of DENYING WITH ANTICIPATION is the very reason these guys don't even check to inform themselves better regarding Mayas, Incas, Egyptians and they can remain in their behavior for God-knows-how-long! So, let it be written, so let it be done. Look at their behavior which hides who they are in Neo-Inquisitor attitude. Moderator PURPOSELY HIDES HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE READING THIS SUBJECT under my name and I tell you, he will continue to do that in his "scientific procedure" like it always has been. He will remove my posts and myself and you don't have to wait too much to see that prophecy fullfills. If he does it, what would he prove? Only the exercise of the one who has the power not to disagree with scientific or logic arguments but an exercise of POWER with Philistean methods. Let it be, show us your incompetence, Mr. Moderator. I beg you!
russ_watters
Apr26-04, 12:27 PM
Pretty easy TO... ..make baseless claims. Substantiating them is tough (the more baseless, the tougher to substantiate them), but sorry - thats how science works.
Lets start with one: give us one universal constant or scientific formula that can be found in the scriptures and show us where it is.
Russ_watters: scripture never intended to be a scientific book explaining formulas. The very question is so absurd that it doesn't even an extended answer. In fact, I'm telling you several times what you just can't understand. I have said the Mayas, Egyptians, Incas, Sumerians NEVER INVENTED ANY FORMULAS COS THEY THEMSELVES ADMITED IT WAS A GIFTED FROM THE GODS. That's why you won't wind any formulas and that's why it was so easy to be forgotten the technologies of the past. If you ask the offspring of Mayas and Incas or Egyptians how did they build pyramids, Sacsayhuamán, Machu Picchu, Teotihuacan they don't know and there's no archeologists or historians reasonable explantions about that forgetfullness. Therefore your question is absurd to quantum level and IF I CONTINUE TO TEACH YOU HISTORY I would really be off the theme. That I won't want. And I'm not pushing anyone to accept anything at all nor pretend to "demonstrate" anything at all. Why would you require this to me? The whole forum is full of contradictory theories, people write about gravitons and I could well turn your arguments against you tired of giving explanations. The guy failed to give a proper answer about Cydonia in Mars, so I won't give more details until he does his research about the chosen name which is not translated. So, before I keep on answering to satisfy your curiosity, you have to tell me why do you believe in the things you believe, let's say Big Bang, gravitons or gravity as a suspected "force", the speed of light, etc. Do you think you know? Do you think you have investigated every sort of contradictory theory? I could ask if you believe in expansion of the universe and then quote from someone using math and more theories to say that is an illusion of the curvature of the space, I could say Michelson-Morley experimental tests is just a hoax, I can say the paralex use of trigonometry shouldn't be applied to far away stars but only to the ones which are close and then conclude all your estimated "light years" are just speculation. Do you think I'm just an eventual reader of New Age books? I'm a big eater of everything you can imagine with the advantage that I have written down every detail, the books, the name of the pages, the name of the author who wrote and so on.
If you say "baseless claims" is because you're an extremely talented person knowing everything I posted. Now, CAN I ASK YOU QUESTIONS to examine if you're that intelligent and prepared to believe your words? Everyone who dislike something usually says the same repetitive and general statement "that's baseless", so you are merely repeating what Moderator said "that's nothing". So, I re-responded him.
It's not baseless The Mayas predicted eclipses with 1000 years anticipation neither the fact of their exact to the second Venusian calendar. What is baseless is your ignorant comment without knowing neither history nor what modern astronomers have openly recognized about them! In insist, do homework and URGENTLY search your local library or buy a book in bookstores.Until then.....
Tom Mattson
Apr26-04, 02:19 PM
He means Stephen Hawkings.
And who the heck is "Hawkings"??? :tongue:
(I know who he means, I'm just goofing around).
DrChinese
Apr26-04, 03:04 PM
Oscar,
Is your premise essentially that there were scientific predictions made a long time ago which are now being re-discovered?
:eek: Yap, I started goofing around with Hawkings unreasonable argument about "monkeys writing sonets" against all odd (something he ignored although he perfectly knows is wrong argument, that's why is unforgivable knowing the statement was made by a mathematician and not a moron). In the same atitude he rejected Thorne's wormholes to believe in his self-constructed more fantastic idea about wormholes. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I started mentioning some things known in the past and evidently causing discomfort. But why? I am not denying science, we all benefit from the progress of science. I just ridicule some scientists logic and do say some things were already known. But here comes Oscar crucifiction demanding ridiculous formulas in religious books, turning blind eye on regarding things they don't know and don't even wanna invest time to investigate, but the quick answer is "that's nothing" or echoing "that's baseless" even without checking nor searching the information and underestimating the work of people in different areas. That is EGO problem, you think cos you like your math formulas you're a bit ahead of others who are also using math and other aspects of science.
Only since this 20th with the help of Gravity Sond B we're gonna test in space what Einstein thought about deformity of space altering the light like a ball of iron in a bed and smaller objects atraceted by the curvature created by the weigh of the ball. That would help us to understand better what was thought by Enstein's brain and checked in 1919 in Brazilian city, Sobral. We'll know better if the spinning of an object with big mass can actually DRAG space-time like milkshake after spinning the straw. We'll check the giroscopes if they alter while the telescope aims IM Pegasi. But why feeling so touchy about modern science? So confident?
We don't know for sure if there's time, if the universe is flat or trumpet-like, like Crisp chip potatoe or a saddle, a donut. Almost 80% of the universe is UNKNOWN NOTHINGNESS and BLACKNESS, we don't know if particles would have mass enough to collapse into a Big Crunch or if we have to believe a Big Rip in endless sea of space, the Big Bang theory in fact has more holes than original superhole singularity :biggrin: ; it's been discussed if there is actually a misunderstanding of the redshift and there's no expansion at all but an illusion of curved space, if mass is moving or light, if light can or can't be accelerated, Einstein himself has been under attack, we're not sure if we have to separate space and time;the number of dimensions are available like menu dishes for all kind of taste; subparticles continue to appear at the same rate we're creating new devices to extend our "vision" proyections and YOU CALL ME I'M SPECULATING??????????????? You gotta be pulling my legs or kidding!
The whole forum is just an speculating thing mounting upon the fame of Dr. Michio Kaku like Argentinian people mounting upon Evita, Maradona and Carlos Gardel fame! Gimme a break! I better withdraw cos I don't wanna repeat myself and see Aristophanic chit chat rather than the subject. In fact, I don't come here to fight with anybody....unless you wanna struggle with me for free. :tongue:
Dr. Chinese: Not exactly and I do thank that before making a critic you really want to know what's in the mind of the one who's writing and then after you can agree or disagree with me and we could extend our conversation. What I'm trying to say is the ancient people never learned by themselves many things neither admited to future generations they invented any predictions. What I'm saying is they got the information as a revelation from hyperdimensional creatures...not humanoid creatures to the image of Erik Von Däniken or J.J.Benítez. They called them gods and the mediator of these people were always the shamans who had contact with the beings through specific mediumic ways. In Egyptian, Mayas, Incas and even Hebrew temple there was always a sacred dark temple and the use of hallucinogenic substances like blue Lilly, opium, coca and nicotine, ayahuasca, mescalito, etc.
Everything learned entered into the realms of those civilizations in different times but it wasn't a natural progressive knowledge by their own, hence it was easily forgotten by the offspring. The very similarities of many things don't require the idea of traces of those ancient cultures in different countries though we can't elminate the possibility as examined several times. Therefore, the entities always depicted as half human half animal entities in universal legends (that's important to distinguish between isolated myths) knew for sure things Sumerian and Egyptian couldn't possible know without the mediums available at the time. That's why the exactitude even in seconds in Venusian calendar of the Mayas, or the expression of strings in the Bible or Earth hanging on "nothing" or even the rotation compared like the clay under the hands of artisan, or the reference to Draco and Milky Way or the emphasis in special constelations and stars like Orion, Pleiads compared with others. It's easy from our modern perspective to talk about equinox and precesion when we already have a better idea of the things or after Newton and Copernicus checked ancient documents. But the people in the past couldn't actually witness those things even to IMAGINE long number of years about those cosmic laws. All what we discuss here is based upon ancient works, we still use 60 seconds for 1 minute and 60 minutes in 1 hour, 12 months in a 365 days year, a week with 7 days. We didn't create a more sophisticated an better way to tick our Earth events, we're using the same leftover though with better devices and indeed more details. But details like "gluons" or messon-mu or Higgs or God's particle haven't erased really what was known in the past. The proof of what I said is the continue use of Joshua's account of Sun and Moon stopped during a day to BELIEVE the Bible was saying Earth was the center of the Universe ignoring completely what is Jewish knowledge and confusing that with Catholic stupid INTERPRETATION in those days. The critics just repeat the same old crap like parrots cos THEY NEVER INVESTIGATED for the same pre-conceived ideas. Shame on them, I pity them.
Oh yes, we have computers know, a Pentium using chips, chips made out of jewels with silicium. But if I say the Mayas used quartz or the granite used in Egyptian Great Pyramid is related to quartz and they used esmerald umphallos, or copper rather than iron to provoke a short circuit and link the whole temple made of stone with the ground, or they purposely golden copper with "empiric" electricity procedures or if I say not even Egyptologist and Archeologists can explain how come stones were transported through river, valleys, sometimes high altitude carrying huge stones weighing tons to distances as far as 160 km, that means nothing to them cos they don't like the issue. Our neo-Babylonian culture isolated the "specialization" so you can talk with a math genius who's a complete as....hole in other areas. You check tv cable and witness the archeologist and historians trying to reveal the secrets of the past get themselves into ridiculous position cos not even their small mock ups or miniatures work! Or you see the rivalry between geologists "interfering" with the power of Dr. Hawass who is the great Egyptian Egyptologist authority in his own country! Therefore, everyone who wants to use Helmotz devices or infrared cameras have to agree with Mr. Hawass in first place. And yet, the results are beginning to unravel now, unwrapping the secrets beyond decades of science Inquisitors. Moderator's attitude hiding the numbers of the people reading this theme or "censuring" what I post with magnified lens he doesn't use with others of his preference is a method I reckon very well in science and even in Medical Congress as I know first hand with Oncologists.
The problem with Hawking's radiation formula is that it's derivation assumes large masses compared to the mass of an electron. So it doesn't tell us anything about the black hole model of an electron, which explains Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism. (http://members.lycos.co.uk/nigelbryancook/)
Wanna be nailed to the cross? Very simple, ask your Rabbi what was the golden powder used by Moses and Egyptian "shamana" (mana) which was found in Egyptian temple (50 tons)? Exodus 32:20. It wasn't a baker but a metalurgist Besaleel who did the "sacred bread" known in Egypt (Exodus 37:10-29). They don't wanna know, they don't wanna search where was that substance set or why or in what circumstances and when. So, why wasting more time? If Mahabarata or Zechariah 14:12-14, Genesis 19:22-30 describes a possible nuclear catastrophe, they won't even investigate the POSSIBILITY of such accounts were not myths but actual facts. It's gonna be considered nonsense because of their pride, they wouldn't suspect archeological evidence of people burned and holding hands exactly like Hindu descriptions told with thousands of years anticipation in the exact location expected. Everything is labled "myth", superstition. Why? Because it satisfies our self estime to think "WE DID IT , WE DID IT BETTER", WE DID IN OUR TIMES, NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING BUT ME...ONLY ME. Ancient civilizations were not always like this, they sometimes admited they did some things, but astonishing is, the most fantastic works they didn't explain the know-how and the experts don't even have an explanation of WHY NOT! I told you why not. Some things they learned but the most important were revealed as they themselves explained. Modern ego going to stratosphere wants even to deny what theh humbly admited! That's shameless attitude.
Even more, people who have study the Avenue of the Dead have actually concrete data information (measurable) about planets like Uranus and Neptune that were "discovered" in recent times, very common 3D temples representing what is on heavens.And what 'data' might this be? Are we talking about the mass of Neptune, to 25 significant digits perhaps?
*SNIP
I have said the Mayas, Egyptians, Incas, Sumerians NEVER INVENTED ANY FORMULAS COS THEY THEMSELVES ADMITED IT WAS A GIFTED FROM THE GODS. That's why you won't wind any formulas and that's why it was so easy to be forgotten the technologies of the past.Without formulae, numbers, specific, concrete predictions, how can we test your ideas? Aren't we all then reduced to "I say {text} means a detailed description of an anti-gravity drive!" and "No, you've got it all wrong!! I say {text} means an idiosyncratic description of how delightful last night's repast was!"If you ask the offspring of Mayas and Incas or Egyptians how did they build pyramids, Sacsayhuamán, Machu Picchu, Teotihuacan they don't know and there's no archeologists or historians reasonable explantions about that forgetfullness.And if you ask me about why Qinshihuang-di burned scholars and buried books (or was it the other way round?), or why the builders of Stonehenge didn't use wood instead, I can't tell you either. However, there are some pretty good ideas on how the various pyramids were built.The guy failed to give a proper answer about Cydonia in Mars, so I won't give more details until he does his research about the chosen name which is not translated.Perhaps you're referring to Nereid? What makes you think I'm a guy? Since this is the internet, why can't I be a dog? :wink:
Re Cydonia: your question was "WHY DID NASA CHOOSE THE NAME OF MARTIAN LOCAL 'CYDONIA'?", to which my answer was: "NASA does not, and CANNOT, name features on the planets and their moons; that's the role of the IAU." Perhaps you meant: "Why did NASA recommend the name 'Cydonia' to the IAU for adoption?" But that would imply that there was, in 1957 or earlier, a formal process within NASA for selecting, discussing, agreeing and then recommending names ... and that would only take us back one more step ...
Just out of curiousity though, does the name Cydonia help you to make specific, concrete, testable predictions?So, before I keep on answering to satisfy your curiosity, you have to tell me why do you believe in the things you believe, let's say Big Bang, gravitons or gravity as a suspected "force", the speed of light, etc.Leaving aside the word 'believe' for a moment, this is very easy to answer ... if you take the trouble to read some of the posts I have made in Physics Forums, you will find many answers. In a nutshell, specific, concrete results from theories which are consistent with observations and experiments. In the case of General Relativity, *no* observation or experiment has a result inconsistent with the predictions from the theory (within its domain of applicability)I could ask if you believe in expansion of the universe and then quote from someone using math and more theories to say that is an illusion of the curvature of the space, I could say Michelson-Morley experimental tests is just a hoax, I can say the paralex use of trigonometry shouldn't be applied to far away stars but only to the ones which are close and then conclude all your estimated "light years" are just speculation.You could say all that. To which I would reply "I'm from Missouri, show me." with specific, concrete, testable predictions (or experimental results, or observational data).Now, CAN I ASK YOU QUESTIONS to examine if you're that intelligent and prepared to believe your words? Everyone who dislike something usually says the same repetitive and general statement "that's baseless", so you are merely repeating what Moderator said "that's nothing". So, I re-responded him.Ask away! Please be sure to mention specific, concrete, testable predictions.
:eek:
russ_watters
Apr26-04, 05:38 PM
Russ_watters: scripture never intended to be a scientific book explaining formulas. The very question is so absurd that it doesn't even an extended answer. Fair enough, we're in agreement: Religion (including ancient mythology) has nothing at all to say about science. So what is the point of this thread then...?
Severian596
Apr26-04, 05:41 PM
Hello, long time listener, first time caller.
oscar your extremely aggressive nature has made your writings entertaining, but also informative. I personally think there's no doubt to the fact that you are indeed learned. You hit on a lot of different topics and had a lot of interesting factoids (although your presentation was less than reader-friendly). I admit that I only wish I had credible information about a lot of the topics you discussed.
Shouldn't you be careful when you conclude that because a given description was used in the past (let's use the Job 38:31 explanation of "string theory" as the example), that the current idea of modern string theory is implied? Taken in context the passage seems to refer to lines you might draw between stars, OR Orion's belt (and this is from www.bibleontheweb.com because I admit, I'm at work):
Job Chapter 38
"31 Canst thou fasten the bands of the Pleiades, or loosen the cords of Orion? 32 Dost thou bring forth the constellations each in its season? or dost thou guide the Bear with her sons?"
It's not talking about string theory or the existence or composition of matter...it's talking about stars up in the sky. At least that would be my immediate interpretation based on the context of the sentence and this particular translation.
I guess I'm wondering if you aren't, yourself, falling victim to the same idea. Vague references are just that, and they can serve the purposes of anyone who excersizes them. For example:
"Kimono, kimono, kimono. Ah! Kimono is come from the Greek word kimona, which is mean winter. What do you wear in the winter? A robe! So, there you go!" - Gus Portokalos:, My Big Fat Greek Wedding
Furthermore I wonder where we go from here. If we learn only in retrospect that the ancients knew about string theory before us...what does that mean? We (and I guess I mean we as humans) still had to develop the theories...the bible didn't lecture on specific string theory or dark matter/energy topics, right?
He means Stephen Hawkings.
Shoot. I was hoping it was about Screamin Jay Hawkins.
I agree with you the Bible doesn't lecture about science. Yet Hebrew language does have many layers and you could well interpret the bands, cords in many ways and also about the nothingness regarding the Earth hanging upon that or the rotation of the planet as clay transformed by the artist or the mention of the word "hugg" meaning circle in all directions, a sphere. That is scientific data though coming from a religious book. Readers can keep on asking themselves why continue with that, yet they are here discussing the subject. And I can return the ball to them, why discuss math theories which have no evidence whatsoever? Because the pleasure of knowing. Russ_waters should recomend Odenwald astronomer, Michio Kaku and even Newton not to write philosophy and Greek myths or religion with science either. Yet they have done precisely that whether he likes it or hates it tooth and nail.
Pretty good ideas about pyramids. Yap, not reality, just theories. Why would I be interested in searching what Mr. said in the forums if he can't give a proper simple answer about the choosing of a name on planet Mars, that's modern knowledge! Worst would be asking about history! Mr. , first, I have said and you KEEP ON NOT UNDERSTANDING Mayas and ancient civilizations won't provide formulas to you. If you wanna learn about their codes I already gave you specific information about numbers used by them but don't expect me to get you out of misery explaining every single detail about the existence of Neptune, Uranus which was a recent "discovery". You maybe think the author of Gulliver by chance mentioned the moons of Mars centuries before the discovery do you think I will give you MORE information if you didn't even read all the sites I gave you? This is not a conversation of someone really interested in knowing something about them. You're just answering to have ping pong argument with me. I said and repeat you haven't got the right to deserve further information. So, you can keep on saying whatever you want and your speculations about pyramids not even archeologist Lehner knows for sure.
You keep asking for religious formulas and yet your math theories and measures are not a universal law, just check the forum and different ideas. So, why wasting MY TIME in such crap? I let real physicist and theorist and astronomers keep on arguing and contra-argument among themselves and keep the files of what is written and after a while I accept a "relative truth" just like relative relativity, how do you like it? HA-HA-HA!
I could've told you more and more but you haven't given a simple answer about why Sumerians and Mayas chose those numbers and Egyptians and Hebrew codes. So, if you can't answer something related to MATH which is the subject you think you know, how on Earth would you understand the history field and other things that you vaguely know? NO WAY, MAN (or woman)!
Severian: I agree with you the scientific mind doesn't have to stop. I'm not saying scientists should stop. I'm just sharing some things from the past and it's up to a fistful of scientists to search about the past and keep on using their brain and skill. In this kind of forum, you won't read many times (if ever) about Nikolai Tesla or Oppenheimer, both of them swallowing a lot of information about Hindu ancient manuscripts. The latter even learning Sanscrit to understand the religious myths better. That's a real scientific mind. Newton wrote more about religion than science and Leonardo Da Vinci was religious person. Einstein wrote personal letters to his friend with the name of his God and Ramanujan didn't hide the name of the goddess who inspired him. That's religion, for Christ sake! But some people stone me here cos they have the math god disguised as not religion but "science". If you wanna convince me that is not faith, I won't be convinced. You will keep on fighting just like Hawkings rejected Thorne because of personal belief. In that sense the ones who grab to science faith have too much to lose cos they believe so firmly. That's not my problem, I'm not a Maya worshipper, neither Inca. You know nothing about me. The path of science is not limited. There's no universal truth applying for many years, after a while a new theory replaces others. Yet, no important scientific information has denied what ancient knowledge described and is pretty evident the ones who ignore all about them have absolute silence regarding them. In this forum we rarely see scientific genius, if they were they should've behave like the ones I mentioned.
Severian: when we talk about language, we need to search the orginal source. What you say about "kimono" and then apply to Greek is just an irony that doesn't reflect what I posted. If I mention a book in the Bible I need to know not the translation picked because of my liking but the real Hebrew source. You can still have time to re-read my previous postings and you will check the DATES of the interpretation of Hebrew by Maimonides reading what Moses wrote thousands of years ago. So anyone can go to the library and check by himself (herself) if wants to do that. Science now is just discovering what they have already said in simple form. It's not a new interpretation according to my preference. In fact, I had the GUTS to say something science hasn't discover yet,that there was God's Big Crunch before Big Bang and there will be dramatic changes in the Sun in 2012/2013.
And if Einstein and Kaku or Hawkings mentioned the title "god" (in Hebrew "elohim" and in Greek "theos") WHO THE HECK IS MR.MODERATOR OR A BUNCH OF UNKNOWN WRITERS TO SAY I CAN'T MENTION THE TITLE?
www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=197443#post197443
Something really bad is happening with Mr. Moderator, he's hiding the # of pages of this thread, he's hiding how many people are reading the subject, though the forum is filled with references to God & philosophy he sends me private messages warning me not to write about those things and also doesn't want me to make references to other things I posted here, a privilege he allows to other participants. That's a fair scientific approach?
*SNIP
... and there will be dramatic changes in the Sun in 2012/2013.This looks like it might become a specific, concrete, and testable prediction. Would you care to elaborate please?
Pretty good ideas about pyramids. Yap, not reality, just theories. Why would I be interested in searching what Mr. said in the forums if he can't give a proper simple answer about the choosing of a name on planet Mars, that's modern knowledge! Worst would be asking about history! Mr. , first, I have said and you KEEP ON NOT UNDERSTANDING Mayas and ancient civilizations won't provide formulas to you. If you wanna learn about their codes I already gave you specific information about numbers used by them but don't expect me to get you out of misery explaining every single detail about the existence of Neptune, Uranus which was a recent "discovery". You maybe think the author of Gulliver by chance mentioned the moons of Mars centuries before the discovery do you think I will give you MORE information if you didn't even read all the sites I gave you? This is not a conversation of someone really interested in knowing something about them. You're just answering to have ping pong argument with me. I said and repeat you haven't got the right to deserve further information. So, you can keep on saying whatever you want and your speculations about pyramids not even archeologist Lehner knows for sure.
You keep asking for religious formulas and yet your math theories and measures are not a universal law, just check the forum and different ideas. So, why wasting MY TIME in such crap? I let real physicist and theorist and astronomers keep on arguing and contra-argument among themselves and keep the files of what is written and after a while I accept a "relative truth" just like relative relativity, how do you like it? HA-HA-HA!
I could've told you more and more but you haven't given a simple answer about why Sumerians and Mayas chose those numbers and Egyptians and Hebrew codes. So, if you can't answer something related to MATH which is the subject you think you know, how on Earth would you understand the history field and other things that you vaguely know? NO WAY, MAN (or woman)!Let's see if I undertstand what you're saying oscar.
1) You claim there is deep knowledge of how the universe works within ancient writings.
2) You claim that these ancient texts show that 'gods' gave some select groups of our ancestors some kind of intuitive understanding of the nature of the universe, but not any details that fit within the framework of what we call 'science' today.
3) Specifically, you explicitly state that *none* of the ancient texts, and the 'gods-given understanding' of the universe they contain, can be used to make specific, concrete, testable predictions.
How am I doing?
On a somewhat unrelated topic, what's your opinion of Joseph Needham's Science and Civilisation in China (https://booktrade.cambridge.org/series.asp?series=NCSC)?
No, I'm not saying that. The hyperdimensional gods didn't provide the written formulas but gave many answers with details and instructed them to follow them. That means they gave all formulas already done. In the case of the Sumerian the Annunaki gods gave the use of 6 something I will try to explain in more detail, the same happens with number 52 in Maya and Egyptian calendars. Please notice a humble astronomer Anthoni Aveni from Colgate University, STUDIES Maya culture ans it's admited they had SOPHISTICATED calendar. What a difference from Moderator's attitude saying "that means nothing"!
www./chron.com/cs/CDA/ssitory.mpl/space/2472608
This is saying a bit about Venus importance. The Russian Velikovsky -though attacked by Carl Sagan- was not completely wrong in his ideas and in fact one of the confusions was mistaken Venus with Mercury. Not only Mayas gave importance to 2012/2013, in fact observing the events not from any place but from Egypt, Leo constelation (a sphinx is a lion with the face of a man, in other times the tail was like a bull and Egyptians iluminated the lateral sides to give the impression of falcon wings) will position in front of the sphinx. They ancient people received a lot of information even the specialists are puzzled but they have been learning the 5th Sun will be the end of a cycle in that year. In armony with this knowledge the astronomers are detecting changes not only in Venus but in Jupiter and the whole Milky Way:
www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_928596.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery
Check the site now:
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/2472608
The Sun itself has increased its magnetic field 230 degrees since 1901. Sunspots are more often and bigger ust like magnetic storms,glowing plasma increased 1000%. I think you can have more information in Rutherford Appleton National Labs in California. On Earth it's forming H0 gas that was not like before in the same amount and it's not related to greenhouse effect or fluocarbon emisors. Venus is getting brighter; Jupiter has energetic charge visible like a tube of ionizing radiation. Magnetic fields in Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune are stronger and the planets are getting brighter. Uranus and Neptune had recent pole shifts, 40, 50 % offset original rotational pole. Volcanic activity increased 500% since 1875 on Earth and earthquakes 400% since 1973 (if I mention the Bible prophecies regarding all this increasing in the world at the same time, Mr. Moderator will be upset with me, so why teasing him? I'll better not!). Natural disasters increased 410% between 1963 and 1993 (hurricanes, typhoons, mudslides, tidal waves) like THE DAY AFTER film about to come. We gotta check natrium in selenic surface and if atmosphere on Mars is getting thicker. The Earth itself is getting flatter on the poles and increasing the belly Equator and it seems the whole galaxy is moving towards a magnetic zone transforming all planets like spinning the milkshake of SPACE AND TIME with the straw. Hence, the sensation of everything moving so fast (even in the county) perhaps it's not psycological as Nobel Prize winner, Alexis Carrel thought...with all do respect. Of course, if you send a telescope in the outskirts of our own Earthy neighborhood which ain't reaching the "center" of the universe neither the Milky Way even, we wouldn't know, we're too close like watching a baseball game from the corner of the stadium with a single tiny micro-camera compared with the size of the field! Absurd! Something is about to come in the following years and that's not a prediction of the end of the world. Not even in the Bible with people who don't even know the difference between the Greek world "kosmos" (world) with the word "aion" meaning "system of things" or "era" so it always meant a change of order and circumstances, even in the Bible.
Nereid: I have to confess Chinese civilization achieved a lot of things and now it seems by the time of Christopher Columbus and even prior their ships went far away but they kept many things inside their border and now we're only beginning to understand all what they achieved. I'm not familiar with many things regarding to China though I wanted to study Chinese but as I said before their 50.000 ideograms are related -as well as Sumerian scripture- to a knowledge coming from the gods and directly to the brain, as a program. Their scripture in fact has to be written from the top to the bottom and the scientists know the use of Mandarine language allows the use of the other brain hemisphere better than other languages. The scripture has been compared to Frank Rampsey's math glyphs.
I ask you to re-read the sites I quoted in page 3 before I procede.
Then you can click on these:
www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/5thsun.htm
www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
http://2012.netfirms.com/english/tmc/part3.html
www.siloam.net/jenkins/appendx2.html
When I say "formulas", you don't have to imagine math symbols, that's why you need to understand their symbols, not Pitagorian or Euclidian.
I know, I know, I know you're asking yourselves "what the heck of information about the Sun", "can we trust Oscar's delusions?" Don't trust me, do your homework! Shall I help thee, my dearrr frrriends?
www.ras.org.uk/html/meetings/2001/010309.html
Even the experts are puzzled and worried.
Somebody said Venus, here, that's my cue.
The Russian Velikovsky -though attacked by Carl Sagan- was not completely wrong in his ideas and in fact one of the confusions was mistaken Venus with Mercury
Would that mean that it was Mercury, "starring" in Worlds in Collision (http://www.knowledge.co.uk/velikovsky/)?
I take it that Velikovski was right about a possible relationship between unfossilised hippo remains in the Thames UK (http://www.originsnet.org/mpsurreyhwpit/pages/h)hippo90hw.htm) and Venus. He may have been, but in a way that nobody could have foreseen, except of course the Kabbalists
Yap, your assumption is correct.
Well, if Mercury was ejected from Jupiter, it's kindda hard to visualize where all it's dynamic energy went. You would expect the orbit of Mercury being highly eliptical with its apogee close to the orbit of Jupiter.
I haven't investigated the issue with detail cos everything is so relative. The scientists do follow a premise which is uniformitarianism idea, that the events or circumstances now are the keys to understand what happened in the past. The fact is even our own planet Earth is issue of discussion, if it's expanding, if did it have the shape of an egg in the past, if it's getting flatter on the poles and wider in Equator's belly, if it spinned faster in ancient times altering the ticking in a shorter day and in fact altering the very year, we discuss about the origin of the very planet and the Moon, so the Mercury you see now in it's position and the current circumstances we see in space has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the past, so there will follow an hypothetical measurement of the dynamic energy in the past? Even the measures we have about light-years is because of the use of paralax trigonometry. That math shouldn't be applied to far away stars but onlu to closer stars! Put a finger in front of your nose and watch it with the left eye and then with the right eye, the position of the angle of variation of the finger will change related to the objects which are at the back of your visual field. If you do the same thing with stretched arm,the finger will look like moving a bit less related to the objects at the back. A celestial body will move more related to fixed constelations NEAR TO US when observed by 2 distant points upon the surface of the Earth. The less angle we could check naked eye is just a minute of an arc or 1/60 of 1 degree. Applying those math formulas to distant stars as if they were near is an illusion. And even if that was accurate (and I'm skeptical), that's all! You can't rewind Mercury or Venus history (even our Earth) like Superman spinning around the Earth in order to witness what was going on. We can only speculate and that is not science realms, that's just speculation disguised with the mask of science.
www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/Jonsson
Peter Pan
Apr28-04, 04:21 PM
must not be a smoker......he's got a lot of wind......i am breathing heavy just reading
Pan
Relax, take a deep breath and then go on... I don't want you to have a heart attack!
I hope Mr. Moderator won't say Goddard Space Flight Center is talking "science fiction":
www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020801gravityfield.html
http://ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/08.htm
What happened with Nereid, Peter Pan and the rest?
http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/gl...tophysical.html
Of course, if Mr. Moderator wants to have a personal chat with the respected SCIENTIST to take him out of misery, I can provide adress....HE-HE-HE!
Don't worry. They are around, I'm sure. It's not a chatbox of course. Don't despair when an answer takes a day.
Moreover is quite heavy stuff though and requires some philosofising. Why don't you glance casually at this thread (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=23236). There may be some useful hints about how a theory works.
www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/planetophysical.html
Interesting! Yet that thread didn't explain why Moderator hid the # of posts, replies and views. What do you think is happening in his scientific mind? Do you think he maybe affected cos his beliefs are put in jeopardy?
russ_watters
Apr29-04, 12:59 PM
Don't trust me, do your homework! As we've explained before, it isn't our homework: its your homework. We won't do it for you. If you've done it, you should be able to present us something (anything) clearly and concisely. For example, what is the bible verse which contains the precise value of Pi?
russ_watters
Apr29-04, 01:06 PM
I hope Mr. Moderator won't say Goddard Space Flight Center is talking "science fiction":
www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020801gravityfield.html What do you mean? Interesting link, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we're talking about here. There isn't any science fiction there.
Well, I guess that there is a very physical explanation for a pulsating equatorial bulge. I can think of one.
However this link (http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/planetophysical.html) is attraction attention. The baloney detector is getting rather nervous. However, there seems to be a Prof. Alexey Dmitriev (http://lizard.phys.msu.su/index-eng.html) indeed. So chances are that these new age hypotheses have some trusthworthiness in certain circles.
Our Planet Earth is now in the process of a dramatic transformation;by altering the electromagnetic skeleton through a shift of the geomagnetic field poles, and through compositional changes in the ozone, and hydrogen, saturation levels of its gas-plasma envelopes. These changes in the Earth's physical state are being accompanied by resultant climatic/atmospheric, and biospheric, adaptation processes. These processes are becoming more and more intense, and frequent, as evidenced by the real time increase in "non-periodic transient events"; ie., catastrophes.
What to do with it. Looking at the late quartenary geology, say the last million years there are most certainly many remarkable phenonema. But if "altering the electromagnetic skeleton through a shift of the geomagnetic field poles" is bothering him, rest assured, it happened many times and there is no trace of Earth going through difficult times. For the moment there is no clear relationship between earth magnetic field (changes) and climate (changes).
but we can explain the majority of them with the "clathrate gun" (http://www.aapg.org/education/dist_lect/behl_abs1.cfm) together with the same design flaw of planet Earth that killed Venus (http://physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=2974).
Just plain physics, no unknown cosmic phenomena.
Russ: you can insist forever what it's my duty or not. The theme here was Big Bang and I have already explained that knowledge was known 1800 years ago by Maimonides who knew Hebrew better than Christians. Then the issue has been changing. Now, if you want me to demonstrate every single aspect teaching you history that's other topic. What we know about modern physics and theories is available all over the places yet history is something not too many people want to search regarding this subject. That's why I say I do my homework, yo do yours. In fact I have giving extra details for quite a while. Now you ask me ANOTHER question? Well, first I would like to know what do you know about Hebrew language? The so called "sacred" cubit measured 25 inches and not 18 while the royal cubit n Egypt was 20 inches. Perhaps your interesting question needs to be examine in Isaiah 19:18, 19. Do you know something about it? Of course not!
Lemme instruct you:
http://greatpyramid.org/aip/gr-pyr1.htm
You will see a reference to Enoch and "inch" in that site. Yet, I tell something more, the name of Aztecs' city was "T-Enoch-Titlan in Nahuatl language and means the same thing mentioned in the Bible about people who knew astronomy, meaning the "city of Enoch" which in Egyptian calendar was related to the constelation of the Dof and Phoenix cicle called Pe-Hanok meaning "house of Enoc". The Maya pyramid in Teotihuacan has the exact number given in the Bible linked to the Enoch who was "taken" (in space-time?)by "God", Genesis 5:23; Genesis 4:17.
Most of modern knowledge about Earth, gravity, etc, comes from the same Freemason scientist Newton who not only wrote more about religion than science but in fact sent a friend to measure Great Pyramid. So, he was the first "pyramidiotic". Now that you know in Hebrew math-alphabet code in Isaiah mentions the altar Great Pyramid both in the center and border of the country, now that you know the hidden inscription tells us about 5449 sacred Hebrew inches and the chamber in the pyramid measuring 365.25 inches , you can see the same number appears linked to Enoch in Genesis and you can remember what I already said about the numbers 666 and 144.000 related to speed of light measured paying attention the circle of the Earth and not a straight line.
www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2.htm
Of course, Mr. Moderator don't believe references cos he thinks he knows more than scientists in Goddard Space Flight or the Russian Alexei Dmitirv, perhaps he wants me to give Mike Lockwood's e-mail or adress in Rutherford Appleton National Laboratories in California, but who cares what Mr. Moderator could argue with them???? Only him, of course.
I say again in case the stupid question comes again about formulas, THE BIBLE NEVER PRETENDED TO BE A SCIENTIFIC BOOK though some scientific accurate information is implicit. How many times do I have to post the same thing to stop making idiotic questions in that sense? For example, the instructions in order to make the ark were already explicit. God or the angel didn't explain to Moses circumsition exactly at the 8th day increased protrombine and vitamine K which is the better day to coagulate blood (while Western civilization took thousands of years to teach doctors to wash their hands!), Gods didn't explain to Jews, Incas, Egyptians if they practice circumsition they wouldn't get penis cancer. Hence the question RussRogerWaters asks belongs to Pink Floyd's stone trip, unless of course he can't add something more and has to repeat the same old "argument" to disregard what he considers useless.
Constelation of the Dog (sorry, I wrote "dof"). More about Pi? Okey dokey:
http://www.yfiles.com/pi.html
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Pi_through_the_ages.html
More questions?
Antonio Lao
Apr30-04, 10:37 AM
The Old and the New Testaments of the Bible seem to be full of miraculous events. Without using modern days scientific explanations, these events will continue to remain as miracles. But recently, I saw a program in the history channel that some of these events can be explained as extraterrestial interventions of superintelligence of lesser gods.
Antonio Lao: I really didn't pretend to talk about all possible theme about the Bible because that would really lead us off the topic.I stated the issue Big Bang and eventually transformed into this. If we understand the original Hebrew language we could know more than the superficial layers known by 99.9% of Christians.In Hebrew, for example, there's a significant difference between "create" (barah) and "form", "make" or "modelate". In Genesis 1:26; 2:7, 18, 21, 22 in the context of Adan & Eve it doesn't say "create" but form from something already existing. In fact in 1:26; 3:22 and 11:6,7 we clearly see the use of PLURAL regarding "gods" (without being important what modern clasification we give to civilizations type I, II, III). It's not majestic plural of Trinity (as adapted from paganism centuries after Christ) but verb in plural of the "elohim". The Bibles don't translate "in the beginning the gods created heaven & earth" cos of the singular verb. But in the verses I mention it's specific use of plural as anybody can understand. The "god" as witnessed by Moses was a sort of angel as Acts 7:30, 35, 36, 38 describes very well. But it's not the unique book saying scientific facts in hidden way. Michio Kaku perhaps should ask his parents about the own writing of the first 5 numbers in Japanese since thousands of katakanas (2000) were imported from Chinese ideograms and then study Frank Rampsey's math gliphs. But, he's too busy and that's understandable yet regretable.
http://fusionanomaly.net/greatpyramidsofgizah.html
Sorry, it's not that but this:
http:fusionanomaly.net/greatpyramidsofgiza.html
http://fusionanomaly.net/greatpyramidsofgiza.html
ZelmersZoetrop
May2-04, 03:41 AM
All genetic information is decoded at the speed of light by RNA messenger which combines DNA “letters” into 3 letter “words”.
RNA transcription takes place at light speed now, guys! Wow! Those ancients sure were brilliant to have known that. Erik von Daniken is proud of you, Oscar.
It's not baseless The Mayas predicted eclipses with 1000 years anticipation neither the fact of their exact to the second Venusian calendar. What is baseless is your ignorant comment without knowing neither history nor what modern astronomers have openly recognized about them! In insist, do homework and URGENTLY search your local library or buy a book in bookstores.Until then.....I read through the links you posted, but missed those two specific predictions.
Please provide:
- a list of which specific eclipses the Mayas predicted
- the Mayas' 'exact to the second Venusian calendar'; I'm particularly interested in how you determined its accuracy.
*SNIP
It's easy from our modern perspective to talk about equinox and precesion when we already have a better idea of the things or after Newton and Copernicus checked ancient documents. But the people in the past couldn't actually witness those things even to IMAGINE long number of years about those cosmic laws.I think you have - inadvertently - looked down on our ancestors. For example, the
Saros cycle (http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/EclSaros.html), or something similar, was discovered a very long time ago, and there's nothing particularly mysterious about that. Nor any need to invoke hyper-dimensional beings with deep wisdom; plain ordinary intelligent people of the time were perfectly capable of working it out themselves.
Part of the reason I asked you about Needham and the history of science and technology in China was to illustrate this point. Needham and his team certainly found considerable ingenuity on display from ancient China, and quite a lot of what we call 'science and technology' today that was discovered - and used - a long time ago in China. Too, being a more or less continuous record, and a very detailed one, they were able to reach a high degree of confidence in their conclusions.
However, IIRC, there was no need to introduce hypothetical hyper-dimensional beings with deep knowledge; plain ordinary people - like you and me? - were perfectly capable of achieving the results that we can see clearly.
No, I'm not saying that. The hyperdimensional gods didn't provide the written formulas but gave many answers with details and instructed them to follow them. That means they gave all formulas already done. In the case of the Sumerian the Annunaki gods gave the use of 6 something I will try to explain in more detail, the same happens with number 52 in Maya and Egyptian calendars. Please notice a humble astronomer Anthoni Aveni from Colgate University, STUDIES Maya culture ans it's admited they had SOPHISTICATED calendar. What a difference from Moderator's attitude saying "that means nothing"!
www./chron.com/cs/CDA/ssitory.mpl/space/2472608
This is saying a bit about Venus importance. The Russian Velikovsky -though attacked by Carl Sagan- was not completely wrong in his ideas and in fact one of the confusions was mistaken Venus with Mercury. Not only Mayas gave importance to 2012/2013, in fact observing the events not from any place but from Egypt, Leo constelation (a sphinx is a lion with the face of a man, in other times the tail was like a bull and Egyptians iluminated the lateral sides to give the impression of falcon wings) will position in front of the sphinx. They ancient people received a lot of information even the specialists are puzzled but they have been learning the 5th Sun will be the end of a cycle in that year. In armony with this knowledge the astronomers are detecting changes not only in Venus but in Jupiter and the whole Milky Way:
www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_928596.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery
The first link is dead. Do you have unambiguous evidence that the behaviour of white oval on Jupiter in 2004 was predicted by 'the ancient people'?
Check the site now:
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/space/2472608I checked it. It says that the Maya, like many other folk in times gone by, had developed a means to predict, fairly accurately, various sky phenomena. Given the importance of certain predictions, such as the changing of the seasons or the regular flooding of a major river, it's not at all surprising that such means were developed. Despite the way you have positioned these results oscar, they're not all that difficult reproduce, using only the tools available at the time; all you need is patience, a good memory, and a modest degree of attention to detail (oh, and you need to pass the information (modern term) on to younger folk etc; this is all but guarranteed by many social arrangements, e.g. priesthood, guild).
BTW, what does the article mean when it refers to "Ancient Mayan texts include accurate tables showing eclipses for Mars and Venus"?
The Sun itself has increased its magnetic field 230 degrees since 1901. Sunspots are more often and bigger ust like magnetic storms,glowing plasma increased 1000%. I think you can have more information in Rutherford Appleton National Labs in California. On Earth it's forming H0 gas that was not like before in the same amount and it's not related to greenhouse effect or fluocarbon emisors. Venus is getting brighter; Jupiter has energetic charge visible like a tube of ionizing radiation. Magnetic fields in Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune are stronger and the planets are getting brighter. Uranus and Neptune had recent pole shifts, 40, 50 % offset original rotational pole.I appreciate that your task is daunting - how to take the enigmatic, incomplete, etc records, often (always?) written in a dead language which hasn't been deciphered and turn them into specific, concrete predictions, written in the language of science of the 17th to 21st centuries.
However, that's unfortunately what you need to do.
Of all the above statements, the only ones which are close to being testable are:
- "Venus is getting brighter" (but, how much? compared with what? over what time period?)
- "the planets [Jupiter Uranus and Neptune] are getting brighter" (same questions as for Venus)
- "Uranus and Neptune had recent pole shifts, 40, 50 % offset original rotational pole" (what were the original rotational pole alignments? over what time periods did they change? "%" - as a measure of change - of what?)Volcanic activity increased 500% since 1875 on Earth and earthquakes 400% since 1973 [...] Natural disasters increased 410% between 1963 and 1993 (hurricanes, typhoons, mudslides, tidal waves) like THE DAY AFTER film about to come.These look very specific and concrete, but they lack something ... references to a) databases of such events (so we can check for ourselves the accuracy and consistency of the claims), and b) evidence that such specific claims were made in the writings of the ancients.We gotta check natrium in selenic surface and if atmosphere on Mars is getting thicker. The Earth itself is getting flatter on the poles and increasing the belly Equator and it seems the whole galaxy is moving towards a magnetic zone transforming all planets like spinning the milkshake of SPACE AND TIME with the straw.The first is not a prediction. The second is a prediction, but is not testable (since no rate or size information is given). The third is unintelligible.
Nereid: I have to confess Chinese civilization achieved a lot of things and now it seems by the time of Christopher Columbus and even prior their ships went far away but they kept many things inside their border and now we're only beginning to understand all what they achieved. I'm not familiar with many things regarding to China though I wanted to study Chinese but as I said before their 50.000 ideograms are related -as well as Sumerian scripture- to a knowledge coming from the gods and directly to the brain, as a program. Their scripture in fact has to be written from the top to the bottom and the scientists know the use of Mandarine language allows the use of the other brain hemisphere better than other languages. The scripture has been compared to Frank Rampsey's math glyphs.You only need to know ~2,000 characters to be able to read much of what's written in newspapers written in Chinese today. AFAIK, the problem about reading and understanding ancient Chinese isn't so much the characters (tho' that's quite a challenge), but the context and punctuation. Never mind, if all high school and university graduates in China are expected to be able to grasp at least some ancient Chinese, I'm sure you can learn it too.
BTW, the 'top to bottom' is just one way Chinese can be written; in fact all four directions (left to right, right to left, bottom to top as well) are acceptable ... or at least they used to be. I don't know about the 'brain hemispheres'; seems a bit 'sus' to me.
Then you can click on these:
www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/5thsun.htm
www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
http://2012.netfirms.com/english/tmc/part3.html
www.siloam.net/jenkins/appendx2.htmlBut what, exactly, is the prediction for 2012/2013 (or predictions)?
I know, I know, I know you're asking yourselves "what the heck of information about the Sun", "can we trust Oscar's delusions?" Don't trust me, do your homework! Shall I help thee, my dearrr frrriends?
www.ras.org.uk/html/meetings/2001/010309.html
Even the experts are puzzled and worried.Hmm, discussions of on-going research in astronomy ... many things not yet (well) understood ... seems like a golden opportunity for oscar to tell us what the nature of these objects is (etc), and to make some concrete, specific, testable predictions!
I'll give you a hand oscar: if you can accurately predict what the nature of the short-duration gamma-ray bursts is, you'll be a hero! Be sure to tell us a) how far away they are, b) what the mechanism is for the production of gammas, and c) why the bursts have the duration and (gamma) spectrum that we observe.
http://ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/08.htmAt first glance, an even more confusing mixture of accurate reporting, inaccurate reporting, (deliberate?) misunderstanding, inconsistency, and so on that even Richard Hoagland's website!
But what has it got to do with hyperdimensional beings beaming the conclusions of their deep knowledge into the brains of ancient Egyptians, Mayans, Sumarians, etc?
oscar: Volcanic activity increased 500% since 1875.
Nereid: These look very specific and concrete, but they lack something ... references to a) databases of such events (so we can check for ourselves the accuracy and consistency of the claims),...
Those exist. How about this (ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/gisp2/chem/volcano.txt).
It appears that increased volcanic activity after 1875 increased 0% until around around roughly 1930. Then there is certainly some increase until now. (note the year zero or "present" is 1950)
This is one of the most important proxies of the past.
http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/gl...tophysical.html
Of course, if Mr. Moderator wants to have a personal chat with the respected SCIENTIST to take him out of misery, I can provide adress....HE-HE-HE!NOT FOUND Error 404
Those exist. How about this (ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/greenland/summit/gisp2/chem/volcano.txt).
It appears that increased volcanic activity after 1875 increased 0% until around around roughly 1930. Then there is certainly some increase until now. (note the year zero or "present" is 1950)
This is one of the most important proxies of the past.Thanks Andre.
From Greenland and Antartic ice-core data, what can be said about the yearly (decadely? century-ly??) variation in global volcanic activity, over the past 100,000 to 300,000 years? How unusual, wrt volcanic activity, is the period 1875 to 1930?
That's an answer (of sorts) to a); what about b)? {"evidence that such specific claims were made in the writings of the ancients"}
Well for 1875-1930 there is nothing unusual in this Greenland ice core proxy, just rather low activity.
The data go back only to 110.000 years BP and unfortunately there is no Antarctic version (yet) We need one desperately.
The marked increase of Volcanic activity in 10,000-20,000 years ago and around 70,000 years ago helps proving my pet idea.
*SNIP
Five hundred years ago, kabalists understood Moses saying God filling eternity, shrank and in that God’s Big Crunch –tsim tsum- there was universal Big Bang expansion. God chose 10 dimensions or aspects to form the universe and included into our universe. 10 times is written “God said” in chapter 1 of Genesis. Kabalists thought only 4 from 10 dimensions are physically measurable while other 6 contracted in submicroscopic dimensions during the 6 days of Creation. So, what Kaku explained in his book HYPERSPACE without saying a word of what I do explain here comes to modern society CENTURIES LATE, I regret to say! The scientists reference to the original space of a “grapefruit” is just a renewed version of kabalists “mustard seed space”. Even in Naimonides times he was aware of Hebrew meaning of the creation STARTING IN THE AFTERNOON AND ENDING IN THE MORNING. Christians ignore the fact, the word “morning” is “boker” in Hebrew and means “distinguished, capable to be distinguish, ORDERED” while “afternoon” is “erev” meaning “confused, mixtured, DISORDERED”. Therefore, what Genesis was saying all the time is creation started in the chaotic entropy of the “afternoon” ending in the quantified order of the “morning”. Usually Christians don’t know either the meaning of the word “yown” translated as “day” and the fact Genesis is talking about simultaneous times using different clocks cos the sequence of events is not the same EVERYWHERE. In Exodus 31:17, Genesis 1:1 and 2:4 we clearly see not only the difference between creative days and THE DAY in which both heaven and Earth WERE MADE from a primordial substance. :wink: Then AFTER when energy from photons dropped to 3000 K degrees, the electrons could have stable orbits around helium and hydrogen nucleus and the photons not only liberated from universal matter (SEPARATED IS THE TERM USED IN THE JEWISH TORAH IN GENESIS BOOK) but also became visible. This fire was in the water and there was water in the fire, not separated as we know in our dimension. It was neo-kabalist brothers Wacholsky did in SFX in one of MATRIX movies making the fire have the attributes of water. More than 99% of Universal mass is under the form of hydrogen and helium, two of the slightest elements of the universe. That is known. But how many of you know when Genesis mentions the Earth was empty and vague it’s used the Hebrew words “tohu” and “bohu”? The most important physicist of particles in fact use the initial T and B (from ToHu and BoHu) as the two main blocs of formation of all matter. The pressure of forces of Big Bang literally did a fussion of this T and B into hydrogen and helium. So much of Hawkins’ expertise!Not many - any? - specific, concrete, testable predictions here, the core of oscar's post starting this thread.
Except (maybe), "More than 99% of Universal mass is under the form of hydrogen and helium, two of the slightest elements of the universe." It's not a 'prediction' from oscar's reading of ancient texts (or, not one that oscar seems to be claiming comes from the texts).
But suppose it is? Well, then we have a concrete, specific example of a *failure* - most of the mass in the universe is in the form of 'dark matter', not baryons such as those comprising H and He!
Nereid, in all your posting you're not denying anything. You are just asking me more information, more details, you even criticized quickly you found a dead site, then you find it after and not giving it a thought, immediately asked for further explanation of the site, you asked what does the site means when admits "accurate tables showing eclipses for Mars & Venus", something that I already wrote. But to tell you the truth, I'm rather tired to give you more and more details. If you don't know about Mayas that's your problem. If you wanna know why the site gives that information, do your homework, it's about time. BTW, Quiche languages of the Maya is not "dead" as you wrote and that makes evident the degree of education you have. I'm aware Chinese people need only 2000 ideograms to read the newspaper NOW, but I was refering to the context of a complex language in reference to time and I'm also aware of the rest of what you said. Regarding how the comprehension of the language is related to both hemispheres of the brain, if you want you can always search information as well. I'm not gonna provide every single detail you ask just to satisfy your curiosity or ping pong discussion. When you mentioned the China issue,I honestly confessed I don't know enough of that thing, if I were a bit more arrogant I would behave like you, just answering whatever to "prove" my point. When I don't know something, I just don't talk about it.
You wrote "patience, memory, attention to detail to pass information" doesn't fit in precessional circumstances or astronomic names as given by Mayas and Sumerian people, there was no way to figure out those numbers but that is something I already explained with detail in the first pages. Hence you are asking me something I already explained before and I won't re-write again. Check back and this time don't "jump" information or read fast just to respond. You need to assimilate information. Since I'm not really having a special chat with you and you ask about Mayas and Sumerian astronomy completely ignoring something already known, to ask for more details will go foreever in your posts!!!! I won't write a book here just to enlight you!!!!
In spite of the fact I repeated you are using the same old fashioned argument about "formulas" and testable sort of thing, and didn't comprehend, well what can I do if you fail to understand what I wrote? You won't be satisfied ever, if you ask me about Pi or whatever, there won't be a satisfactory answer. You already have a NO SIGN recorded in your neurons not allowing to digest infomation. Your skepticism went beyond the frontiers and transformed into cynicism so unfortunately our conversation is over. If a Bible mentions specifically that order came out from chaos just as scientists are admiting now after thousands of years, that is certainly scientific as well as the testable fact the Earth hangs on the vacuum while other documents were saying it was upon an animal. What happens, is you wanna read modern names, right? Even so, I have already told you the word for "expansion" and "darkness" was already explained in the Bible, so you're not denying anything that I wrote, you're just having a narrow minded attitude, "no, no, it's not enough, I wanna see the formula of the Big Bang and this sort of thing". Every reader that eventually reads your post or my post shall judge what is good sense or nonsense "no,no,no". I won't discuss with you forever. Neither I mind what people may think about me.
If you want to say something about Mars as shown by Hoagland and posted by me is wrong, please specify WHAT IS WRONG AND WHY rather than making the usual general statements since I won't answer more Maya or Sumerian stuff for your eyes only.
Zelmers Zoetrop: Däniken didn't write about RNA messanger as far as I know. Yet RNA transcription not only takes place at the speed of light NOW, it has always done!
Well, I guess how you choose to continue depends on what your objectives are.
If you wish to become rich and famous by initiating a revolution in 21st century physics and astronomy, then answering some of my questions may be of some assistance to your quest.
If you wish to write a book, then you don't need me to say anything.
But maybe you have other objectives entirely?
OOOPS! Comunication breakdown, Uhura says it's jammed!
www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/mesoamerican_astrology.htm
This one takes a while to download :
http://employees.oneonta.edu/walkerr/Mesoamerica/Mayan%20Writing.ppt
http://btc.montana.edu/ceres/MESSENGER/ancastro.htm
www.siloam.net/sunrise/sunrise.htm
www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science+society/lectures/lecture18.html
www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com/2eng/2eng15.htm
The ones who can actually READ shall see Maya calendar was one of the most accurate calendar ever designed.
Other subject:
www.iitp.ru/personal/Efim_Liberman/int_e.html
www.biologie.uni-regensburg.de/Mikrobio/Thomm/E/elongation.htm
www.ssril.slac.stanford.edu/newsletters/headlines/headlines_2-04.html
www.unifiedftheory.com/Exc4.htm
Sorry, my ego is not in stratosphere like you believing I have to answer YOUR questions to create a revolution! Far from my intention. First the many contradictory theories would have to shock me to the point in fact ther are revolutionary!!!!! If they repeat somethng already known 1800 years ago or even before, that doesn't surprise me and other people at all! Only the ones who didn't even suspect Pi was implicit in the Bible! Must be pulling my legs! Something else to add besides the inaccuracy of reading Maya language is "dead"?????? Probably more than 50% of Mexican and people from Guatemala or Honduras indeed speak that very language! To think I was having a chat with someone who believed he knew something about Mayas! I regret I spent so much time discussing with such a fellow. I thought you were a little bit more educated. I was wrong. It's good anyway, now we can forget completely any reference about your PF "advice" and your persona.
Bye bye!
I'm dissapointed. In the theme Quantum Revolution in the subtitle "Kaku's Omission about Tycho crater" initiated by someone else, I'm not insulting, I just wanted to write about some more evidence about what is actually on Mars, and Mr. Moderator doesn't allow me to post in his FEAR of the truth:
www.mactonnies.com/imperative32.html
www.marsnews.com/news/20021004-boerner2.html
www.enterprisemission.com/message.htm
http://66.70.204.112/cydoniacontroversy
www.enterprisemission.com/ody.htm
www.viewzone.com/marsface.html
Don't worry, I'm off a forum which erases what administrator wants to hide in behalf of science! I pity you!
Bye bye, you too, Mr. Moderator. Your attitude allows the reader and yourself how to deceive the public. Dr. Kaku can still figure out about aliens type I, II or whatever number. Let him and yourselves keep on searching.
One of the things that I find almost funny when reading the (sadly frequent) claim that "ancient people had Theory X all figured out", is the blatant ignorance such claims clearly display about theory X.
This instance is a particularly clear example. Oscar seems to think that using the same letters (t and b) has some relevance to the physics. It does not.
Similarly, the fact that some words in ancient texts seem similar to the names chosen for some concepts in today's physics makes no case at all. The content of those terms is given to them via precise predictions and measurements. Terms like "dark matter", "extra dimensions", "spacetime curvature", etc., have an extremely well-defined meaning only within a mathematical framework that connects them to experimental outcomes.
Oscar's claims are similar to saying that civilization X "knew all about TV" based on the fact that they had words for "tele" (=remote) and "vision". There is something else to a TV set than the name it has (i.e., about 100% of the important stuff).
quddusaliquddus
May3-04, 02:20 PM
An instructive lesson can be learned from similar claims made in the past - when the 'trendiest' theory from science are chosen to be correlated with an ancient text. After a few years - as with most of science - a shif of persepective occurs due to some findings etc.. and those people are left in a Very embaressing situation.
Good point quddusaliquddus,
Also, it is interesting to notice how, after such embarassing moments, the ancient quote that turned out to be plain wrong starts to live a second life as a "symbolic" reference.
The selection of quotes from ancient texts has "evolved" this way. At any time in history, only those quotes compatible with scientific findings are held as examples of the wisdom of the ancients, or of the veracity of some relogious belief. The rest stay disregarded until applicable.
Ahrkron: You're putting the things in the wrong order. Science is given "labels" in Greek names as Kaku admited in his book with a humble attitude I rarely see in amateurs. The Greeks didn't name the things AFTER what is known now. The very expression "tele" that you use comes from Greek but it requires a concept and not just linguistic, of course. It's us the ones who use the notion of "atom" by Greek importation of the word and concept, so though they didn't have our modern devices they had the notion of something "undivisible". Now, you could worry if they knew something about "telepaty" that we could "experience" with submarines or even from out of the Earth and that eventually is demonstrated! Words and symbols are not independent knowledge; it's not a matter of playing games with words. Ancient names gave names according to what they understood independent of what we can or can't demonstrate...how did you wrote? Oh yes, you wrote "within a mathematical framework that connects them to experimental outcomes". I encourage you to read Dr. Kaku's humble attitude saying the math theorists don't even have the slightest idea why some numbers are chosen. And in fact, with the same math formulas we can "demonstrate" gravity exists as well as gravitons and that it doesn't exist, that is just an illusion; we can prove there's gonna be a Big Rip or a Big Crunch and so on with contradictory statements and "experiments". Quoting Quddusaliquddus, that is embaressing! Very, very embaressing. If the Egyptians and the Hebrew text or Maya or Sumerian or Inca had the words and symbols and numbers, so we're not playing with games here. We have the astonishing ruins archeologists and historians still investigate, the temples SHOUT for themselves about what they knew, so don't give us the cocky impression the ancient people were dummy when even the Europeans at that time were stunned. Don't believe me, buy your local tv channel and check History Channel and see how puzzled they are; not even their mock ups and miniatures work when they try to imitate the building technique. All the temples, were done to reflect what they understood from heaven. If Dr.Hawass and Lehner's friends were incapable to answer some specific items in their Egyptian forum, I suppose you -who are not historians, nor archeologists but enjoy astronomy and math theories- won't be in particular advantage to answer some questions. Specially Nereid who wasn't even aware Maya language never "died". Of course, you can always try. Nice effort though! But I think is enough for answering you questions and wait for your replies pages after pages and still giving more information. I'm not naïve to ever think I will convince anybody. Nobody convinces anything at all even if you see a lot of formulas or specific information. The people CHOOSE what to believe and refuse.
Shall I interrogate you about science theories or history? Would you respond? Why don't you check ALL CONTRADICTORY THEORIES OF THESE VERY FORUM and select the ones you choose for everybody to know your scientific approach.
So Mr. Nereid, Akhron,Quddusaliqqudus or whoever, can write each one of your beliefs.
You can write what do you think the space is made of; the nature of time and space; if there's gonna be a Big Rip or a Big Crunch, if neutrins do have mass or not; if there are real gravitons and gravity as a force or is just an illusion; if you believe we really understand the redshift or if we are misunderstanding the whole thing and confuse with the curve of space-time; which form of universe shall we swear upon and how many exact dimensions and so on. You know, what's gonna be the answer? NO ISOLATED ANSWER. Each one of you are gonna choose what you like so I ask you from the bottom of thy hearts. Is that science or just multiply theories as multiplied dimensions and universes? Hence, you can play the chess game and think you're "knowing". You can deceive yourselves but not me. I already said I had the guts to explain with anticipation what science can or may discover in the future:
1) There was God's (you may call "energy" if the title used by REAL scientists disturbs your sould) BIG CRUNCH before the BIG BANG. That's kaballah "formula". 2)Chaos gave birth to order as it was already explained in ancient translations, not just words, CONCEPTS, MR. 3) Hyperdimensional hybrid creatures allow to be seen in specific places and circumstances related to our Earth time. They were drawn by all ancient civilizations and called by the name of "gods" and "demons". The use of certain elements like pyramids (with the detail UNKNOWN by the readers here, the purpose of the polished stones even to optical level in some cases), copper prefered than iron, gold, arks, quartz, etc., helped in that interaction. It was always needed the use of hallucinogenic substances to have a chat with those realms cos the Hertz frequence was important. Some substances in fact have the chemical structure quite like serotonine or endorphines which were serve like "keys" to the brain "doors":
www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series.asp?cod=81
www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series.asp?cod=80
That's the MEDIUM for the information. With some of these substances you don't even require the use of math formulas cos you can actually SEE even fractal geometry with closed eyes beyond the limits of minimum % of frequences available and caught by your eyes. Yet to keep on discussing the issue really goes OFF the topic I initiated. If anyone wants to contradict or disagree you can always OPEN a new thread and there I shall follow...of course, if I'm allowed! As I said before, Mr. Moderator didn't allow me to answer more information about MARS in the proper place not to discredit Dr. Kaku. I wonder why if my information is "pathetic" according to his own point of view. He should've let the readers judge by themselves how idiot can I be...or not. Therefore he is not only stopping me , he is indirectly thinking the readers are uncapable to discern what is true or false.
You can check specially blue lilly, psyloybin from mushrooms, mescalito in Mexico, Ayahuasca in Peru, etc:
www.montana.edu/wwwai/imsd/rezmeth/transmit.htm
www.peyote.com
www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/180/hallucin.html
Of course, Dr. Kaku has another speciality in neo-Babel Russian salad of sciences, he didn't even IMAGINE the door to Planck's dimension can be achieved not by outerspace vehicles or energy but indeed it's always been done into innerspace....He's always confused, even in his Picasso and Dali's examples. Dali knew better than his examples cos Dali was connected with those realms in his crazyness. Kaku should've read Dali's concept about DNA and his biography to know better. Kaku confused the reflection in the mirror with reality. This thing you call "daily awareness" is just a gray shadow of what is real. That's why Dali's COLORS were different, they tried desperatly to achieve those Planks' realms where Azazel Asimov's demon may dwell. The squizophrenic universe was a mind disorder in psycological terms in other times. Then after they found out interesting physical differences compared with other brains. And now they have found in some of them (in marrows) the prions, bigger than virus but smaller than bacteria...who knows what are we gonna learn in the future with better devices....hmmm? I better withdraw, now the Romans are coming to crucify me...
...very "applicable" but I regret to say, the evidence is personal, very subjective from the observer's point of view, very objective for the one who experiences it...like the dreams not reproduced with machines in labs, yet very real.
Welcome to God's mind, the hollographic universe, expanding cosmo-vision "ideas"...like soap bubbles. Everything started in the "soup" of elements or information binary bites-bytes. Wawawawow!
oscar you said:
Specially Nereid who wasn't even aware Maya language never "died". (...)So Mr. Nereid, Akhron,Quddusaliqqudus or whoever, can write each one of your beliefs.
Sorry, Nereid (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=17346), (a.k.a. Mr Moderator) allow me the fun, I say:
Especially oscar who wasn't even aware who Nereid (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nereids.html) "were"
..
The Nereids are the fifty daughters of Nereus and Doris who dwell in the Mediterranean Sea. These beautiful women were always friendly..
The very expression "tele" that you use comes from Greek but it requires a concept and not just linguistic, of course.
Of course. However, that has nothing to do with my point. My point can be exemplified like so: some ancient cultures' cosmology used the concept of chaos; then, as time passes, the same word is used to describe a quite different concept, much more precise and experimentally (phenomenologically) justified. At that point, saying that the ancient cultures "had it right" is nonsense, since their version of the concept was a different one. In a sense, the fact that we use the same word is an unlucky accident.
Also, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that ancient people were in any way less able to understand nature, or any such thing. In every age, there are people strongly devoted to understanding things without resorting to mysticism or dogmatic revelation. We do the same nowadays in physics labs and elsewhere.
It's us the ones who use the notion of "atom" by Greek importation of the word and concept, so though they didn't have our modern devices they had the notion of something "undivisible".
Again, there were two options: either the word was continuous all the way down, or started from undivisible components. The only way to decide among the options is experiment. If it had been that the world kept being continuous no matter the scale, you would now be saying that the other camp had it solved from the times of the greek philosophers, but you also would be doing it after the fact.
Words and symbols are not independent knowledge;
Of course not, but your using the word "independent" does not constitute a proof that you know all about linear algebra, even if such is concept used in that field.
Of course greek philosophers had some things right, but you seem to think that stating "space is curved" or "order came from chaos" is all there is to general relativity and cosmology. It is definitely not so. There are volumes of information missing from those phrases. Those one-liners are just catchy expresions included in pop sci books to let people touch the tip of the iceberg. Real science and philosophy need much more rigor and depth of analysis.
The Maya did indeed have many achievements, in astronomy as well as other fields. So too did many other societies/civilisations, in South and Central America, in Asia, in the middle East, and so on.
The writings of many of these civilisations has been lost, and for quite a few, the surviving texts and inscriptions haven't been fully deciphered yet. For example, one of the links oscar provides says that "about one third of the [Mayan] pictorial characters have yet to be deciphered".
There can be no doubt that many very clever people lived in these old societies; nor that many of these developed means of making systematic obsevations of natural phenomena, of recording and (to some extent) analysing them, and of passing on the distilled knowledge to (then) future generations.
Where records have been well kept - as in China, for example - detailed study of the approaches and methods used by our ancestors is possible, and fascinating reconstructions are possible. Of course, many mysteries remain.
However, IMHO, the more we learn about these ancient (and some not so ancient) civilisations, the more it becomes clear that they were made up of people just like us - no brighter, no duller; no more peaceful, nor warlike; and so on. In particular, the more we know of them, the more clear it becomes that they did not have access to some deep wisdom or knowledge that has been lost. Indeed, it sometimes seems that less we know of a civilisation, the more fantastic the claims made about it.
Inventing hyper-dimensional gods to pass great knowledge into the minds of our otherwise dull ancestors seems to me a kind of insult to those ancestors; their achievements are what they are without any 'help'.
Well, for people who didn't have computers (that's progress accumulated through time) if we could rewind the history tape and give them computers and modern calculations, I wonder what they could achieve. Now, what a change in your point of view after some pages...for people who were saying that knowledge was "nothing". I never said the ancient people said "ALL THAT THERE IS" about science. If you understood that, it's your crossed-eyed vision. If with all that "rigor" with modern technology you can figure out 100 different thesis and hypothesis, well, well, well, allow me to keep on giving more details from what Mr. Science himself considers "catchy".
Mr. Nereid first needs to know URGENTLY Mayas' language was never "dead" as he wrote, before daring to say talking about gods was an insult to them. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO TALKED ABOUT GODS IN FIRST PLACE or you ignore that, Mr. Wise Man? So, on the contrary, far from insulting them I'm just setting the things in the right order. For Christ' sake, when someone who doesn't know even the basic history of the Mayas says "the more we know of them" it's really not an insult. It's an awful joke!!! If what is known astonishes the historians and astronomers, imagine what we can know about when the rest of the information is decoded.
And I repeat AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. When the Incas or Mayas, or Egyptians did something usually they recorded what was achieved. But exactly the more astonishing deeds were frequently omitted and that is one of the most unanswered questions of the scholars. Some deed, and I'm talking in this context about calendars, were a gift from their gods. They said themselves. If a modern scientific mind wants to give them the glory of something they never admitted to invent, now, that is a non-scientific argument based upon "faith".
Of course they didn't know "all about algebra" cos I have said and REPEAT A 1000 TIMES, they didn't discover the formulas by themselves, it was already stablished what was important and what was irrelevant.
Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement after I have given enough information they indeed knew more and predicted eclipses. That's not cliché. That's a fact. If ignorance kept you out from Mayas' or Inca's universe all the time you were reading the same old crap about Greeks, that's your fault. Before saying the version of ancients regarding some "words" are different from modern phenomenically aspects, the one who writes should know what language is he talking about. Is he talking about Japanese concept of dwarf person called "chaos" or what? I have mentioned specifically even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept,you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING. I have explained the concept of time was already detailed in the fact the days of creation stablished a difference between "day ONE" in ordinal number differently from "second day" and following which are in cardinal number in Hebrew and several other details I have given for the ones who want to re-read again to compare. You,ignored that with your favorite attitude of jumping information. That's why you always get back to square one wandering around in circles. Now, we have a scientific mind that uses the same cliché and repetitive answer "unlucky accident". No, Mr, there were no accidents at all, the only thing happening here is proposital unawareness. The Mayas didn't have astronomers, Sr. they had astrologers. So, if you say in all times there were people who were not motivated by mysthicism, I have to say YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN. Not only in the past but until modern times. Einstein was a mysthic and so Newton, Mendeleiev, Leonardo Da Vinci and Ramanujan. So, if you want to discourage the idea in a subtle way to disregard as if mysthicism was something worthless, again and again and million times, YOU CONTINUE TO BE EXTREMELY IGNORANT.
Yet, you haven't answering my questions about your scientific "choices", each one of you in this "path of modern knowledge" and scientific bla-bla-bla that one day says one thing, the other day says other, the third day announces the same leftover of 13 years ago, the 4th day resurrects the final option and then says another thing.
even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept, you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING.
No, it isn't. That is precisely my point. Do you really think that the phrase "order came out from chaos" is all there is to modern cosmology? It is not. It is a pedagogical resource used in pop sci books, but no real work is done on the basis of such hugely vague and incomplete descriptions.
Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement...
Try to read things in context, and stop the name calling altogether. It can only get you banned.
Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.
Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?
Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.
Oh really?
Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?
After several warnings you persist with the insults, name calling, and rude behavior. Enough is enough.
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