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the_fox
Aug17-08, 01:29 AM
Can anyone tell me how to find the exact number of primitive polynomials of degree n over a finite field F_q? I believe the answer is φ(q^n-1)/n, but I cannot find a proof of this.

Thanx in advance.

morphism
Aug17-08, 08:44 AM
What's your definition of a primitive polynomial of degree n?

the_fox
Aug17-08, 08:58 AM
It's an irreducible polynomial whose roots generate F_q^n. So for example f(x)=x^4 + x^3 + x^2 +x + 1 in F_16[x] is not primitive (a root c of f(x) has order 5), while g(x)=x^4 + x + 1 is (a root c of g(x) has necessarily order 15).

morphism
Aug17-08, 09:00 AM
OK. And do you know how to many generators F_q^n has?

the_fox
Aug17-08, 09:03 AM
Yeah, φ(q^n-1).

morphism
Aug17-08, 09:17 AM
Now put 2 and 2 together. (Some field theory will be helpful.)

the_fox
Aug17-08, 10:28 AM
Every primitive polynomial produces n distinct roots in the extension field that are primitive elements. Hence #(primitive polynomials)*n=φ(q^n-1). But is this a formal argument? I don't feel so much at ease with field theory..

P.S. 2+2=4

morphism
Aug17-08, 11:46 AM
Yes, that's a formal argument, provided you also note that every generator of F_q^n corresponds to a primitive polynomial of degree n in F_q[x] (namely its minimal polynomial).

the_fox
Aug18-08, 07:33 AM
Allright. So we can say that elements of order q^n-1 in GL(n,q) can be divided in φ(q^n-1) conjugacy classes, to combine results with the Singer cycles thread. What I want to do is find the order of each conjugacy class. Any ideas?

morphism
Aug18-08, 01:25 PM
So we can say that elements of order q^n-1 in GL(n,q) can be divided in φ(q^n-1) conjugacy classes
What's the reasoning behind that?

the_fox
Aug18-08, 01:49 PM
I'm sorry; I meant φ(q^n-1)/n classes. the companion matrices that correspond to primitive polynomials of degree n have order q^n-1 and Singer cycles that have the same minimal polynomial necessarily lie in the same conjugacy class.

morphism
Aug18-08, 02:18 PM
Is that obvious? I mean, there are two notions of 'conjugacy' here: conjugacy in the sense of field theory in F_q^n, and conjugacy in the sense of group theory in GL(n,q). Do they coincide?

the_fox
Aug18-08, 03:27 PM
I think it becomes obvious if you notice that a Singer cycle cannot have an irreducible polynomial that is not primitive as a minimal polynomial. For example, can f(x)=x^4 + x^3 + x^2 +x + 1 in F_16[x] be the minimal polynomial of a singer cycle in GL(4,2)?

the_fox
Aug19-08, 05:47 AM
By the way, I think it's true that no element in GL(n,q) has order that exceeds q^n-1. An thoughts on this?

morphism
Aug19-08, 01:34 PM
By the way, I think it's true that no element in GL(n,q) has order that exceeds q^n-1. An thoughts on this?
I think this is proved in the paper I posted in the Singer cycle thread.

I think it becomes obvious if you notice that a Singer cycle cannot have an irreducible polynomial that is not primitive as a minimal polynomial.
True, but how does this relate to conjugacy?

the_fox
Aug19-08, 11:04 PM
What I mean is, that Singer cycles with the same minimal polynomial belong to the same conjugacy class defined by C(m(x)), the companion matrix of m(x). Assume conjugacy is restricted to the group theoretic sense. For example, all Singer cycles in GL(3,2) belong to either one of the two distinct conjugacy classes defined by companion matrices of the irreducible (and also primitive) polynomials x^3+x^2+1 and x^3+x+1.

the_fox
Aug20-08, 05:39 AM
I just realized that S. cycles are also self centralizing, but I can't prove it. If I manage to though, I will have a formula for how many there are.

Hurkyl
Aug20-08, 06:46 AM
By the way, I think it's true that no element in GL(n,q) has order that exceeds q^n-1. An thoughts on this?
Let A be an element of GL(n, q).
Let f(x) be the minimal polynomial of A.
Let f_d(x) be the product of all irreducible degree-d factors of f(x).
Note that the f_d(x) are pairwise relatively prime.
Note that f_d(x) divides x^{q^d - 1} - 1.
Therefore, f(x) divides the least common multiple of the relevant x^{q^d - 1} - 1.

\mathop{lcm}\left\{ x^{q^{d_i} - 1} - 1 \right\} = x^{ \mathop{lcm}\{ q^{d_i} - 1 \} }- 1
Since \sum_i d_i \leq n, we have that A^m = I for some 0 < m < q^n.

the_fox
Aug20-08, 06:51 AM
I've also noticed that s.c. commute only with their powers, i.e., are self centralising. Can we prove that?

the_fox
Aug20-08, 06:54 AM
Oops.. sorry for the double post.

Hurkyl
Aug20-08, 07:19 AM
I've also noticed that s.c. commute only with their powers, i.e., are self centralising. Can we prove that?
I think so.... The main point I see is that if A is a singer cycle, then GF(q)[A] is a finite field with qn elements. If something commutes with A, how does it act on this realization of GF(qn)?

Note also that we have a GF(q)-vector space isomorphism GF(q)n ~= GF(qn). Maybe we need both realizations to prove something? Ideally they should be compatable in some way.

the_fox
Aug20-08, 07:33 AM
I'm not even sure I understand what you ask. Can you be a little bit more analytic, or perhaps illustrate this with an example?

Hurkyl
Aug20-08, 07:44 AM
Let A be the GF(2)-matrix

\left(
\begin{array}{cc}
0 & 1 \\
1 & 1
\end{array}
\right)

Then A^2 + A + I = 0, and the ring GF(2)[A] -- the subring of the ring of matrices that is generated by A -- is a finite field with the 4 elements 0, I, A, A^2 (= I + A).

Furthermore, GF(2)[A] is a vector space over GF(2). Construct an isomorphism of GF(2)[A] with GF(2)^2 by selecting the basis (I, A). Note that the "multiplication by A" is a GF(2)-linear transformation of GF(2)[A], and so it has a coordinate representation as a 2x2 matrix. In this example, it miraculously turns out that that matrix is A. (Actually, I selected A specifically so that would happen in this basis)


Is that the part you wanted elaborated? Or is it something else?

the_fox
Aug20-08, 08:04 AM
A nice example indeed. The part I didn't really get though, was about the action. If an element commutes with A in this example, then what? I assume your selection was motivated by taking the companion matrix of the 2-degree primitive polynomial over GF(2).

Hurkyl
Aug20-08, 08:15 AM
The whole reason I'm trying to insert GF(q^n) into the picture is so that we can invoke what we know about linear algebra over that field. In my example, "multiplication by A" is not merely a GF(2)-linear transformation, but also a GF(4)-linear transformation! I think, in general, we can arrange things so that GF(q^n)-linear algebra becomes applicable here.

Yes, I chose the matrix in the way you suggested. Not for any deep reason; just because it's the only way I could quickly produce an example, and it's arithmetically convenient too. Actually, I didn't think of it as the companion matrix -- I was constructing the example in the reverse direction that I gave the exposition: I first chose the realization of GF(4) as a 2-dimensional vector space over GF(2) (with generator satisfying x^2 + x + 1 = 0), and then constructed A as the "multiply by generator" transformation. But it works out the same either way, I suppose.

the_fox
Aug21-08, 12:30 AM
So how can we get commutativeness into the picture?