What is experience?

[quddusaliquddus]

What is experience? :smile:

[Kerrie]

valuable in many cases, so long as one can draw some sort of learning experience from it.

[quddusaliquddus]

lol ... yes ... but what is it?

[BoulderHead]

It is a wonderful thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

[Kerrie]

lol ... yes ... but what is it?

subjective proof?

[loseyourname]

What exactly do you mean by "what is it?" (And should I have put two question marks there?)

I suppose you could say an experience is any temporally extended perception, perception being the awareness either of sensory input or introspective thought.

[quddusaliquddus]

It is a wonderful thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

lol...what is it?

[quddusaliquddus]

subjective proof?

Im tempted by that def, but does it have to be a proof?

[quddusaliquddus]

What exactly do you mean by "what is it?" (And should I have put two question marks there?)

I suppose you could say an experience is any temporally extended perception, perception being the awareness either of sensory input or introspective thought.

I have a feeling this def. is missing something. Erm...can we define experience in terms of labels of experience i.e words? Is that 'ok' thing to do? Is being in a vegetative state- an experience?

Is just being alive an experience?...therefore even if u dont have sensory input or thought you could have experience?

[honestrosewater]

Do two magnets experience each other?
Does a leaf experience sunlight, wind, or rain?
Is cell irritability experience?
Does your tongue taste a lemon or do you taste it?
Where would you draw the line?
Happy thoughts
Rachel

[quddusaliquddus]

I'm undecided. WOuld appreciate ur views on it though :D

[quddusaliquddus]

Do two magnets experience each other?
Does a leaf experience sunlight, wind, or rain?
Is cell irritability experience?
Does your tongue taste a lemon or do you taste it?
Where would you draw the line?
Happy thoughts
Rachel

sounds like you got sum great ideas for new threads ;D

[honestrosewater]

:wink:
I meant the questions to point out that I don’ think there is *a* definition. There could even be several reasonable definitions, or several “levels” of experience.
For instance, you could say matter experiences physical forces.
You could say experience requires a chemical reaction, like photosynthesis.
You could say experience requires a (functioning) nervous system, like that of a worm.
You could say it requires consciousness, or a certain level of consciousness.

Did you have a specific kind of experience in mind?

[quddusaliquddus]

No point. In any question put on this board, I've noticed that a sort of good etiquett to do a mental ritual-dance that entails a rangle over the definitions assumed in the question ... I'll let each person define their own ...

[honestrosewater]

Hehehe... so you can dish it out, but you can't take it?

From your comments about the definitions given by others, it seems you have *some* idea of what is experience. Can you give a tentative definition?

[quddusaliquddus]

No I cannot. It's only fair :D ... must stay neutral ... but not unenquiring ... what are your thoughts?

[honestrosewater]

I don't think there is *a* definition ;)

[Dissident Dan]

valuable in many cases, so long as one can draw some sort of learning experience from it.

But of what value is that knowledge if it does not lead to better experiences?

----------------------------------------

An experience is a subjective state.

Experience in a particular field is having adequate germane experiences (first definition) grounded in objective reality as to have gained the knowledge necessary for a certain task, or at least enough to put oneself well above the typical level of knowledge.

[p-brane]

I don't think there is *a* definition ;)

Experience is the result of the stimulation of specific sensory organs and organelles in an organism by the environment. It includes internal stimulation via simple chemical reactions and/or neuronal exchanges and eventually the storage of experiencial information gained from the stimulus of the sensory input in the form of modified dioxyriboneucleic acid molecules and modified chemical and/or neuronal behaviors in response to the "experience" or similar experiences in quesition.

That will be all! :confused:

[quddusaliquddus]

Let's define "An experience" as opposed to "Experience in a particular field".

[quddusaliquddus]

p-brane: "Experience is the result of "

You are saying what experience is as a result of something else. Does it exist in itself? ...i.e... are those bio-chemical processes you describe the actual experience themselves or is it something 'after' that happens?

[loseyourname]

I have a feeling this def. is missing something. Erm...can we define experience in terms of labels of experience i.e words? Is that 'ok' thing to do?

No, but it is an okay thing to do. I don't see how we could write out a definition of something without using words.

Is being in a vegetative state- an experience?

No. If you are not conscious, you do not experience.

Is just being alive an experience?...therefore even if u dont have sensory input or thought you could have experience?

No, plants do not experience.

[loseyourname]

Experience is the result of the stimulation of specific sensory organs and organelles in an organism by the environment. It includes internal stimulation via simple chemical reactions and/or neuronal exchanges and eventually the storage of experiencial information gained from the stimulus of the sensory input in the form of modified dioxyriboneucleic acid molecules and modified chemical and/or neuronal behaviors in response to the "experience" or similar experiences in quesition.

That will be all! :confused:

Stimulus/response is not experience. The awareness of the stimulus and response is experience.

[p-brane]

p-brane: "Experience is the result of "

You are saying what experience is as a result of something else. Does it exist in itself? ...i.e... are those bio-chemical processes you describe the actual experience themselves or is it something 'after' that happens?

First of all, in answer to the "awareness" of stimulus and the "experience" of stimulus thingy............... awareness is awareness and experience is experience. Awareness is the ability to compare stimuli ie: distinquish between one stimulus and another. In order to be aware... one must experience... in order to experience one must be able to discern and identify stimulus.

Take, for another example, the fact that we say this:

"My my, this foundation has experienced some trauma. Look how the water has seeped into the cement and experienced freezing and thus, the cement has experienced some deterioration.

In this example, is the cement really experiencing cracking and deterioration? Yes. This is confirmed by our observations.

In this example, is the cement "aware" of the cracking and deterioration? Don't know. Ask the cement. As far as I know, cement does not have what we know as "awareness". But, just try and prove it! :devil:

So, in shorts, my opinion is that it's not a pre-requisite to be aware of an experience in order to experience a stimulus or condition.

[Kerrie]

But of what value is that knowledge if it does not lead to better experiences?

----------------------------------------

An experience is a subjective state.

Experience in a particular field is having adequate germane experiences (first definition) grounded in objective reality as to have gained the knowledge necessary for a certain task, or at least enough to put oneself well above the typical level of knowledge.

it is of value if you can offer your experiences to another person when you share your experience. it may not be as great of value as your own subjective experience, but it can help another.

yes, experience is definitely subjective.

[motai]

Putting it bluntly, experience is shooting yourself in the foot and finally figuring out that you shouldn't leave the safety off :eek:

Forgot to add this quote:

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first and the lesson afterwards" -Vernon Sanders Law

[loseyourname]

My my, this foundation has experienced some trauma. Look how the water has seeped into the cement and experienced freezing and thus, the cement has experienced some deterioration.

In this example, is the cement really experiencing cracking and deterioration? Yes. This is confirmed by our observations.

I don't think this is what is meant by experience here. We've run into a difficulty in that the word is rather ambiguous and can be used to mean two different things. I'm pretty sure the author of the thread meant to ask how we would define human experience. I could be wrong. Maybe it's just the neuroscientist in me, but I would never speak of a block of cement being the subject of an experience, even though there would be no inconsistency in laymen's terms.

[p-brane]

I don't think this is what is meant by experience here. We've run into a difficulty in that the word is rather ambiguous and can be used to mean two different things. I'm pretty sure the author of the thread meant to ask how we would define human experience. I could be wrong. Maybe it's just the neuroscientist in me, but I would never speak of a block of cement being the subject of an experience, even though there would be no inconsistency in laymen's terms.

In terms of human experience imagine a 2 year old being ignored or worse, being badgered by a drunken father/mother. This is an experience the toddler would not have any benchmarks to compare with. The experience is weathered but the toddler is unaware of the impinging effects and influences this environment has on his/her development etc.

Later on in life the toddler is now a 28 year old father/mother that drinks and ignnores his children or worse, constantly badgers them. However, his wife and his siblings finally get him into some sort of therapy where he is made aware of his upbringing and environment as a child and he is able to connect the dots between his/her behavior and the experiences he/she had.

In this case the experience has been experienced yet not through awareness but simply through experience.

The same would be in the case where one is exposed to high doses of radiation. The body has experienced the rads but the mind is not aware of the experience until the effects begin to blister the skin and pretty well everything else falls apart.

Experience is somewhat like the tree falling in the forest. It can happen, and does happen, without anyone noticing til a later time.

In terms of sharing experience... i don't think its possible.

One can only share one's interpretation of an experience. The actual experience remains a very personal and etherial occurance, once one is aware of it. It is usually something that cannot be communicated in words... only the memory of it and the consequences of it can serve as the record of the experience... in most cases.

[quddusaliquddus]

No two experiences can be the same due to DNA, previous experiences, etc ...
But they're roughly the same so we label them with words- i reckon the primary function of words is to be able to communicate experiences.
If we have to be aware of our experiences to call them an experience - the ndo animals experience?...they don't have the self-awareness we have...true/false?

[Yes.I meant human experiences]

[honestrosewater]

I don't think this is what is meant by experience here. We've run into a difficulty in that the word is rather ambiguous and can be used to mean two different things. I'm pretty sure the author of the thread meant to ask how we would define human experience. I could be wrong. Maybe it's just the neuroscientist in me, but I would never speak of a block of cement being the subject of an experience, even though there would be no inconsistency in laymen's terms.

Wow, did no one read any of my posts? The word can certainly have more than two meanings- I've already pointed out five. That is why I asked if quddusaliquddus had a specific kind of experience in mind. And quddusaliquddus said no. Has the world gone mad? Or is it just me?

[hitssquad]

Wow, did no one read any of my posts? The word can certainly have more than two meanings- I've already pointed out five. That is why I asked if quddusaliquddus had a specific kind of experience in mind. It seems people here generally may have in mind as the definition of experience that most relates to philosophy this:


8 philosophy a : the act or process of perceiving or apprehending <experience is a matter of the interaction of organism with its environment, and environment that is human as well as physical, that includes the materials of tradition and institutions as well as local surroundings — John Dewey> b : the content or the particular result of such experience c : the discriminative reaction or the nonconscious response of an organism to events or happenings within its environment

[honestrosewater]

If everyone agrees on a definition, great. If one person doesn't know what the other is talking about, what's the point of having a discussion? That's why I don't think my comments were mere squabbling.
I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I'm not offended if anyone ignores me- just flabbergasted.
Happy thoughts
Rachel

[quddusaliquddus]

If everyone agrees on a definition, great. If one person doesn't know what the other is talking about, what's the point of having a discussion? That's why I don't think my comments were mere squabbling.
I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I'm not offended if anyone ignores me- just flabbergasted.
Happy thoughts
Rachel

"I don't think there is *a* definition ;)"

If there was 'a' definition we wouldn't be having this discussion. Thats why "If everyone agrees on a definition, .." is not so great as, we wouldnt be exchanging ideas on this thread. What is experience is synonymous with what is the definition of experience as obviously other than using words to define it - we have no other way to answer the question. Please dnt be too flabbergasted :D

[honestrosewater]

If only there was an emoticon for the way I'm feeling! Something like :cry: / :rofl: / :rolleyes: / :approve:

I think our words are getting in the way. Perhaps an example can clear thing up:
If someone asked me, "Does a rock have experiences?", then I would reply, "It depends on what you mean by 'experiences'."
If someone asked, "When I step on a rock, does it experience the same thing I experience?" I think that is sufficient to begin a fruitful discussion. Do you see the difference between the two questions? The comparison in the second provides the definition.

Yes.I meant human experiences

This is what I was trying to get you to say when I asked if you had a specific kind of experience in mind and when I asked for a tentative definition.

I think I see now why you resisted providing one. I don't think a definition is death to the discussion. The point of the definition is to clarify what you're talking about when clarification is needed- pain and gravity are both commonly called experiences, but there are differences between them. Saying that one of them is not an experience is misguided if you haven't yet clarified the definition of experience; it's the same as saying one of them cannot be a definition.

Please, someone say they understand what I'm saying.

Happy thoughts
Rachel

[loseyourname]

In terms of human experience imagine a 2 year old being ignored or worse, being badgered by a drunken father/mother. This is an experience the toddler would not have any benchmarks to compare with. The experience is weathered but the toddler is unaware of the impinging effects and influences this environment has on his/her development etc.

Ha, you're making me get really specific here. I'm speaking of mental experience when I say human experience. The human body going through an experience without the mind being aware of it is no different than an inanimate object going through the same experience (although the effects may be different, depending on the phyical and chemical properties of the matter in question).

I'm going to have to go back and see what rosewater is talking about, though. I can't think of more than these two definitions for experience.

[loseyourname]

By the way, I really shouldn't call it "human" experience. There is no reason to believe that other animals do not experience events in the same way.

[honestrosewater]

Feeling better :biggrin:

Perhaps it would be better to say five levels of the experience hierarchy.

You could even group them loosley along the same lines of what the different sciences study, ex.
physics
chemistry
biology
psychology/social sciences

The last one, a certain level of consciousness, is more a sublevel, but whatever, I think you get the point.

[quddusaliquddus]

I didn't want to impose a restriction on the question I put so as to broaden the dicussion as much as possible....but I get your point. I think we have to include all experiences into the definition otherwise it wouldnt be a very good one....generalisation helps at this point.

[p-brane]

Ha, you're making me get really specific here. I'm speaking of mental experience when I say human experience. The human body going through an experience without the mind being aware of it is no different than an inanimate object going through the same experience (although the effects may be different, depending on the phyical and chemical properties of the matter in question).

I'm going to have to go back and see what rosewater is talking about, though. I can't think of more than these two definitions for experience.

Let me put it this way.

The human body has enough receptors and sensors and responders to pick up most and/or all of the information (ie: stimulus) being presented to that body at anytime during the life of the body. No?

So, at any one time during our lives we are experiencing the exact measurments of every bit of matter in our vicinity and beyond. We are experiencing the X-rays, Gamma rays, news casts as radio frequencies, all sorts of info that we screen and filter so we can concentrate on our Alpha Bits in the morning. The brain is as much of a sensor as the nerve ending that serves as a sensor on the end of your big toe. But it does have a filtering process.

The experience of all of this info is being "experienced" by these receptors, sensors and responders but the information is shunted past the area of the brain that processes the info into a consciousness or awareness of the info and re-directs the info to the subconscious storage areas. The experience has happened and has been recorded. It is also useful in day to day survival and interaction. But, the "mind" is not aware of the experiences it has absorbed... yet... it is benefiting, as is the rest of the body, from the information gleened from the experience(s).

Just another example of an autonomic experencial behavior modifer.

I don't define experience as some sort of airy fairy magical thing that happens when you sneeze at the same time as your girlfriend.

Experience, to me, is one thing and one thing only. The stimulation, excitation and reaction of chemicals and or neurons.

This concludes my broadcast with regard to this subject. Thank you for putting up with me. I hope the experience for you was at least half of what it was for me!

[loseyourname]

I think we're just going to have to disagree here. I still don't think you have effectively been able to group a mental experience with a physical experience. A big toe separated from the foot will still have the same sensory capability for a brief while, but it will not experience pain in the same way that the mind does while the toe is still attached. I don't see how you can downplay the importance of awareness. You can't honestly believe that a block of concrete experiences rainfall in the same way that you do.