View Full Version : No big bang, white whole quasar!
woodysooner
Aug1-04, 05:16 PM
Why does there have to be a big bang, why couldn't we (the universe) begun from another universe's black whole and pure energy flowed from a quasar, or white hole, from reading about quasars they are dumping millions of times the energy into the universe than galaxies that we view that is astonishing.
I see this as a good thing it protects conservation of mass/energy, in essence its like a house with 4 bedrooms, 10 people in the house and a large large lock on the doors which permits no one from going outside. People can wander from room to room and we never lose the people, they are always there, just cause a person isn't in the room we are in doesnt mean they are gone forever they might just come back.
Just like this ideas energy goes into a black hole pours into another universe and then we get it back or somehting back in the quasars.
If this is not succeptable than let's not say a different universe lets say it just goes to the oppisite side of our universe, imagine a topology that would just form a hole that would let things fall to the other side.
Just an idea that's all.
I'm ready for all of you to bash it lol.
Critisism is welcome.
You all know well more than I.
Cheers
Woody
Why does there have to be a big bang, why couldn't we (the universe) begun from another universe's black whole
Blackhole's don't create new universes. Stephen Hawking just theorized that information isn't lost in a BH and it eventually escapes meaning BH don't create other universes. Plus if if we are just another universe's BH then where did that universe come from?
woodysooner
Aug1-04, 05:39 PM
Blackhole's don't create new universes
How do you know that. For sure.
Stephen Hawking just theorized that information isn't lost in a BH and it eventually escapes
To my knowledge I have read every possible thing that leading scientists have wrote after the convention at which hawking spoke and none of them were satisfied with his reasoning. I am not saying you or him are wrong just saying why quit looking if we are not sure.
Plus if if we are just another universe's BH then where did that universe come from?
Very good pt. lol, I have no idea but i will work on that and post back sooner or later. I just thought that it made everything symetric and we didn't then have to postulate how things all started, but your right, it has to start somewhere.
But what about Quasars, where does this massive flux of energy come from, i mean its monumental???
Thanx Entropy
How do you know that. For sure.
I know everything. :tongue2: Just tell you that from what I know, its not probable.
But what about Quasars, where does this massive flux of energy come from, i mean its monumental???
When the matter is being sucked in, some of it gets deflected off of other matter falling in. I don't know much about the process but I pretty sure there is a model that explains it pretty well. Maybe someone else know what I'm talking about.
woodysooner
Aug1-04, 05:58 PM
I know everything
I like that alot, confidence is definately a must have.
When the matter is being sucked in, some of it gets deflected off of other matter falling in
I am confused, don't quasars give off massive amounts off energy, where is the sucked in coming from?
When the matter is being sucked in, some of it gets deflected off of other matter falling in. I don't know much about the process but I pretty sure there is a model that explains it pretty well. Maybe someone else know what I'm talking about.
The majority opinion, at present, is there are supermassive black holes in the center of quasars. Quasars are also believed to be very young, so there is an abundance of debris for the black holes to feed on. Observation indicates most ordinary sized galaxies [eg, milky way], contain supermassive black holes in their centers. The quasar phase is probably a normal part of galactic evolution [the wild teenage years]. ps - take plenty of sunscreen if you decide to visit one.
woodysooner
Aug1-04, 06:16 PM
I'm sorry if I am not understanding all of you well enough, but I thought a quasar gave off alot of energy. If a black hole was in the middle then it would suck in energy right???
pallidin
Aug2-04, 08:57 PM
Quasars no longer exist. What is observed of them happened so very long ago that it is highly likely that they simply no longer exist as a quasar. Point being offered: There are NO active quasars in the current universe, nor has there been for billions of years.
woodysooner
Aug2-04, 09:16 PM
one question. Just because we don't see any now does that mean they havent happened and there light is still on its way.
one question. Just because we don't see any now does that mean they havent happened and there light is still on its way.
No, we "see" them. Its just the light has taken billions of years to reach us so they're all dead now.
woodysooner
Aug2-04, 09:50 PM
i know if we see them now they have long since gone, but if one was there now we wouldnt see them right... so how can we suppose there are none.
Quasars are predicted to only form in the early universe.
woodysooner
Aug2-04, 10:14 PM
not saying you are wrong but can you explain why this is.
If someone take the sun, then we will know about it after couple of minutes.
Today we see quasars only in a couple of billion light years a way, if they are still existing in the same form as they were then, then there is no reason why we cannot find them closer to us.
Since we do not observe quasars in the near past, we can conclude that they are not existing in the same state as they where billions years ago.
We are assuming the Big Bang was fact as is customary these days. There are many who suspect that the Big Bang is not a reality.
We now know that Dark Matter contributs a large percentage of the ambient gravity; and we know that gravity lengthens the wave length of light; do we account for the red shift due to the ambient Dark-Matter gravity when we calculate galactic distance.
Keep on chuggin !!
Vern
Photon Anatomy (http://photontheory.com)
do we account for the red shift due to the ambient Dark-Matter gravity when we calculate galactic distance
If dark-Metter is all over around us, then a red shift must apper also "near" to us, which (as much as I know) not the case.
Blackhole's don't create new universes. Stephen Hawking just theorized that information isn't lost in a BH and it eventually escapes meaning BH don't create other universes. Plus if if we are just another universe's BH then where did that universe come from?
so are you directly disputing the conjecture in Smolin's paper from last week? http://arxiv.org/hep-th/0407213
that is a pretty bold statement! even Susskind couldn't come up with a good argument against it- his first attempt was even rejected by the arXiv! http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/blog/archives/2004_08.html
___________________________
/:set\AI transmedia laboratories
http://setai-transmedia.com
so are you directly disputing the conjecture in Smolin's paper from last week?
I told you I know everything!!! Don't argue with me mortals!!! :devil:
:tongue2:
I don't know. I was just under the impression that if information wasn't lost in a BH and could escape then a BH couldn't form new universes. I actually haven't read much of the very resent stuff on BH's.
I'm sorry if I am not understanding all of you well enough, but I thought a quasar gave off alot of energy. If a black hole was in the middle then it would suck in energy right???
In the processing of being gobbled up by the black hole, matter is accelerated to enormous speeds [approaching light speed as it gets close]. The collisions between particles at these high velocities releases enormous amounts of energy. All energy produced outside the schwarzchild radius of the black hole [which is a pretty short distance] escapes.
In a very young galaxy [e.g., quasar] there is a huge amount of unclaimed matter for the black hole to feast upon. As more and more stars form, the fuel supply dwindles and the quasar starts behaving like an adult galaxy. If you lived in one of those quasar galaxies right now, chances are good your galaxy would look like the milky way and the milky way would look like a quasar.
Metallicbeing
Aug3-04, 09:12 PM
If everyone keeps an open mind, I believe the following anology might explain:
Obviously, it would be practically impossible to know, but I like to think of it this way:
Picture a glass of chocolate milk with a straw in it (I just like chocolate). Now, start to blow bubbles until you get lots of bubbles. The bubbles are universes. The milk flowing in between the bubbles are the material that feeds their creation. When enough "milk" is in one area (enough for that grand-daddy of all blackholes [beyond Quasars]), a big bang occurs (matter/ antimatter annihalation), creating another universe (bubble). When the bubble has given back all of its material (through expansion), then the other bubbles rush in to fill the space.
If you really think about it, it does make sense. There's a theoretical cycle that works here. We live in a multiverse.
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