Schroedinger equation Hydrogenic atom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the time-independent Schrödinger Equation (TISE) to the hydrogenic atom, focusing on the separation of variables into radial and angular components, and the subsequent derivation of energy levels. Participants explore methods for solving the radial part of the TISE, particularly through series solutions, while addressing challenges encountered in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their progress in separating the TISE into radial and angular parts, identifying spherical harmonics as eigenfunctions with specific eigenvalues.
  • Another participant mentions the lecturer's approach of neglecting the effective potential at large distances and proposes a series solution method for the radial part of the TISE.
  • There is a request for assistance in completing the derivation of energy levels for the hydrogenic atom using a series solution, highlighting a lack of notes on the derivation.
  • A participant suggests that a rigorous treatment of the hydrogen atom using the Schrödinger Equation is found in A. Messiah's book, mentioning the use of hypergeometric functions in the solution.
  • Links to external images are provided to illustrate the participant's work, although there are issues with readability and formatting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the derivation process and the methods used. There is no consensus on the best approach to complete the solution, and multiple viewpoints on the rigor of different texts are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the difficulty in using LaTeX formatting and the clarity of shared images, which may affect the communication of ideas. The discussion reflects a range of approaches to solving the TISE without resolving the specific derivation challenges faced by the original poster.

shaun2985
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Hi

I'm second year undergrad in Physics and I've been studying the time-independent Schroedinger Equation (TISE), QM operators, etc and now application of this to a hydrogenic atom.

I've come to a bit of a dead-end though - I've got to the stage where I've separated the TISE into Radial and Angular parts. With the angular part, I've deduced that the corresponding eigenfunctions are spherical harmonics with corresponding eigenvalue [tex]\hbar l(l+1)[/tex] which I've put equal to [tex]2m(\lambda)[/tex].

Now, in solving the radial part of the TISE for the hydrogenic atom, the lecturer has considered the radial equation at very large distances from the nucleus, when the effective potential [tex]/V_eff[/tex] can be neglected. i.e. considering bound states of the atom. He has put [tex]\E = -\frac{\kappa^2}{2}[/tex], substituted into TISE (using the relation R = chi/r) and has obtained the solution in term of an unknown function, F(r), [tex]\chi(r) = F(r) \exp(-\kappa r)[/tex]. He has obtained a corresponding differential equation for F, resulting in [tex]\frac{d^2 F}{dr^2} = -frac{l(l+1)}{r^2} F = 2k \frac{dF}{dr} - \frac{2z}{r}F[/tex]. Solution of this is by series solution with condition that r is well behaved as it tends to 0. Now the problem is that I've lost notes on this particular derivation and am unsure how to find the energy for hydrogenic atom in the parameters I've described. I've looked at books, but they all show a different method, one that won't be examined in my course.

I was wondering if one of you could perhaps fill in the gaps for me, by using a series solution method.

Thanks




I'll have a go showing a rough derivation of where I've got to..

Hamiltonian in 3D in spherical polar coordinates with coulomb potential:
[tex]\hat{H} = -\frac{\hbar^2}{2m_e} [\frac{1}{r^2} \pd{}{r}{} (r^2 \pd{}{r}{}) - \frac{\hat{L^2}}{\hbar^2 f^2}] - \frac{Ze^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r}[/tex]

Therefore TISE:
 
Last edited:
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lol, the latex tags didn't quite work out.

it's much easier if I show you what I've done...

http://img241.echo.cx/img241/5253/phy15mn.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/44/phy10013mj.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/1706/phy10042wn.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/1198/phy10051ko.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/2923/phy10060wh.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/4489/phy10072kz.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/191/phy10083fn.jpg

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/523/phy10090xx.jpg

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/2540/phy10105fp.jpg


Ok - the above images show the separation of the TISE under electric potential into radial and angular parts. Angular parts have thus yielded spherical harmonic eigenfunctions and the respective eigenvalues.

The solution of the radial part has required substitution of [tex]\chi = rR(r)[/tex] into the TISE. Then it was considered as r -> infinity. The V term disappears and left with linear second-order DE. Solutions give [tex]\chi = B \exp(-\kappa r)[/tex]. Rewriting the solution in terms of an unknown function yields [tex]\chi = F(r) \exp(-\kappa r)[/tex].

This was differentiated twice and substituted into the TISE in atomic units,
[tex]-\frac{1}{2} \frac{d^2 \chi}{dr^2} + \left[ \frac{l(l+1)}{2r^2} - \frac{z}{r} \right] \chi = E\chi[/tex]

This gave a 2nd order DE in terms of F:
[tex]\frac{d^2 F}{dr^2} - \frac{l(l+1)}{r^2} F = 2k \frac{dF}{dr} - \frac{2z}{r} F[/tex]

I did the first stages of Frobenius' Method but am unsure where to go from slide "Series Solution 2". I'd be grateful if anyone could fill in the rest for me, in finding the energy as shown in the slides below...

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/8739/phy10110wo.jpg
 
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edit the .th parts out of your links. and try again with the latex, the text in the pics is really really hard to read.
 
hi, I've edited out the .th parts - they should be much bigger to see now. i'd try again with the latex tags, but it's my first time using them and could take hours.
 
I really didn't understand what u were looking for,but i can tell that the most rigurous treatment for the H atom using SE is made in A.Messiah's book.

In the most rigurous approach,th solution of SE for the H atom is expressible as a product between a special case of degenerate/confluent hypergeometric function (the Laguerre polynomial) and a special case of a Gauss hypergeometric function (the spherical harmonic).This discussion is made in Messiah's book.

Daniel.
 

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