Clarifying Latent Heat: Cooling 1kg of Water to 0C?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving latent heat, specifically the cooling of water and the melting of ice. Participants explore the calculations related to the energy exchanges when 200g of ice at -10°C is added to 1kg of water at 15°C in an insulated container, aiming to determine if there is enough ice to cool the water to 0°C and the resulting states of the ice and water at equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the initial temperature for the heat extraction calculation (Q2) is set to 0°C, suggesting a need for clarification on the sign convention used in the calculations.
  • Another participant explains that the negative sign in the heat extraction calculation accounts for the cooling process, indicating a change in temperature.
  • There is a discussion about the energy required to warm the ice to 0°C and the subsequent energy needed to melt it, with one participant noting the specific heat and latent heat values used in the calculations.
  • Some participants propose a step-by-step approach to understanding the energy exchanges, emphasizing the need to first warm the ice before melting it, and calculating the remaining energy available for melting after warming.
  • One participant expresses a desire for an alternative explanation or a clearer method to solve the problem, indicating some confusion remains regarding the calculations.
  • Another participant summarizes the process, confirming that the available energy is sufficient to warm the ice but not enough to melt all of it, leading to a final temperature of 0°C and a specific mass of ice melted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to warm the ice before melting it and the calculations involved, but there are differing views on the clarity of the explanations and the reasoning behind certain steps. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved regarding the best approach to explain the problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the specific heat and latent heat values used, as well as the assumptions made in the calculations. There are unresolved questions about the clarity of the explanations provided.

PrudensOptimus
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There was this problem regarding Latent Heat that I would like further clarification:

Problem:

200g of ice at -10C is added to 1kg of water at 15C in an insulated container. Is there enough ice to cool the water to 0C? If so, how much ice and water are present once equilibrium is reached?

In the book it demonstrated the solution by finding the Energy required to melt all 200g of ice Q1:

Q1 = mc(dT) + mL = 70.9kJ -- I understand that.

Then it says "Cooling the water to 0C extracts an amount of heat given by Q2":

Q2 = mc(dT) = 1kg(4.184kJ/kg*K)(15K) = 63kJ. -- Why did they set initial Temperature to be 0C?
 
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They're calculating a negative (the heat extracted), so the equation has an extra negative sign.

In particular, [itex]- \Delta T = -(T_f - T_0) = T_0 - T_f[/itex]
 
OK, when they calculate the mass of the water at 0C after apply ice, they used this:


m = Q/L = 58.7kJ/334 = 176g.

I understand they subtracted 4.1kJ(Specific heat of Water) from 62.8kJ... But why did they do that?
 
Because in order to freeze, to pass from the liquid state to the solid state without any change in temperature, the sample had to LOSE that much heat to the environment (by conduction or radiation).

Think of it as representing the amount of kinetic energy lost by the molecules between being able to move around, as in the liquid, and being fixed in a crystilline lattice, in the solid.

The heat has to go somewhere, and it goes into the environment. That is why you get the paradoxical result that when, say, droplets in the air freeze to ice crystals, they have a warming effect on their part of the atmosphere. Conversely when ice crystals melt they take up that specific heat from the environment, resulting in a cooling effect on the surrounding air.

Remember that these exchanges of specific heat don't in themselves change the temperature of the water; this heat goes only into the change of state.
 
Is there another explanation for Q2?

And perhaps someone can work this problem in a slight different, clear, simple way?
 
Originally posted by PrudensOptimus
I understand they subtracted 4.1kJ(Specific heat of Water) from 62.8kJ... But why did they do that?
Think of the process in steps. Before you can melt the ice, you must first warm it up to the melting temperature. You know that the energy needed to:
1) warm the ice to 0 = 4.2kJ
2) melt all the ice (at 0) = 66.8kJ

The available energy in the warm water (compared to 0 degrees) is: 63kJ

That's more than enough to warm the ice, but not enough to melt it all. (So we know the final temperature will be 0.) After warming the ice, there will be 63-4.2=58.8kJ left to melt ice. So a fraction equal to 58.8/66.8 (= 0.88) of the ice is melted (= 176g).
 
Originally posted by Doc Al
Think of the process in steps. Before you can melt the ice, you must first warm it up to the melting temperature. You know that the energy needed to:
1) warm the ice to 0 = 4.2kJ
2) melt all the ice (at 0) = 66.8kJ

The available energy in the warm water (compared to 0 degrees) is: 63kJ

That's more than enough to warm the ice, but not enough to melt it all. (So we know the final temperature will be 0.) After warming the ice, there will be 63-4.2=58.8kJ left to melt ice. So a fraction equal to 58.8/66.8 (= 0.88) of the ice is melted (= 176g).


I see, all previous responses in combine with your response there made me understood the problem completely. I am very greatful and I will cogitate on the procedures now. Thanks.
 

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