Mixing household bleach with urine

Borek

You need realtively high concentration of chlorine to be able to see its color. If you smell the bleach, there is chlorine in teh air. But as highly reactive it won't last long - it will react with vitrtually everything in the house (say - it slowly decolorizes carpeting, or your favorite coat).

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mudder

Quote by jmnew51

Hello everyone,

Not that I looking to experiment or anything, but anyway...correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here...please.

An associate of mine was wondering how to get rid of cat urine smell. Having exhausted all attempts to cover it up or use that enzyme stuff, I told him I usually treat the offending area(because I have 3 cats, I know)with a solution of household bleach. The ensuing reaction liberates alot of chlorine gas and that he should leave the area for a short time as chlorine gas is very irritating. (I do this all the time, and my kitties love me)
A friend strongly advised him not to mix bleach with urine because urine has ammonia in it. And the gas is toxic and will kill you.

Well first off I don't think urine has ammonia in it because urine is acidic. (Uric acid). The ammonia you smell from a cat's litter box is from the decomposition of the nitrogen rich by-products of metabolism. Correct so far?

Secondly the gas is chlorine because sodium hypochlorite is an oxidizer and it gives up it's oxygen in the process and liberates chlorine as a by-product.

Third the reaction is also somewhat of a typical acid-base reaction because bleach has a high ph and urine has a low ph.

I don't think I'm too far off base with the description of the reaction, or the origin of that ammonia smell, am I??
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also just out of curiosity, what would be the final products of a reaction with an oxidizer like sodium hypochlorite and uric acid and urea?
Carbon dioxide, water, sodium chloride. hmmmmm...where does all that nitrogen go??

Also what would the result of mixing ammonia and bleach? Hmmmm...?
I know it doesn't smell good, but do they even react?

Thanx for looking

Jim

The acid in the urine is what makes the bleach/ammonia mixture more volatile. mixing ammonia with bleach is not a good idea, unless in a controlled situation. When you add acid from urine is when chlorine gas begins to form more rapidly. When done in a well vented area, no harm done. When done within closed doors, it creates possibility for permanent injury or death. Most people would leave the area from sheer irritation before this would happen, but people have died in this manner.

mudder

especially with large quantities of partially dried animal urine

thomas.beeler

There's a better way than using clorox to get rid of the urine smell. Clorox also damages carpets irreparably. Household bleach might work if you're ready to evacuate the house for a day or so while the chlorine gas dissipates. Otherwise you can neutralize the smell with an H2O2 peroxide solution bought at the grocery store. You can tell if it's (the peroxide) reacting with the urine if it begins to foam slowly after a minute or so. When you treat a urine-stained carpet with peroxide, it will also make a soft bubbly sound after a minute (hold your ear close). As long as it bubbles you need to keep treating the carpet. Then dry the carpet with a vacuum and towels.

I once 'rescued' a pet infested house by treating all of the floors with 25 gallons of clorox over a period of a week. It was highly unpleasant but the house increased in value by 125% when I was finished. I didn't die either.

asoto1964

I cannot believe that after reading all of these responses, and maybe I just missed it, but not one person mentioned "Mustard Gas." Mixing Bleach with Ammonia, or Urine (Animal or Human) which contains Ammonia, creates a homemade version of mustard gas. This stuff is not military grade mustard gas, but it is the closest one can come to creating this biological terror gas at home. In fact, mixing bleach with urine, ammonia, vinegar should not be done unless you're MacGuyver or some grunt in the trenches, who just happens to have all the ingredients necessary to make this weapon -and needs to make it! Bottom line.... Don't mess with this stuff!

dreiter

Quote by asoto1964

I cannot believe that after reading all of these responses, and maybe I just missed it, but not one person mentioned "Mustard Gas." Mixing Bleach with Ammonia, or Urine (Animal or Human) which contains Ammonia, creates a homemade version of mustard gas. This stuff is not military grade mustard gas, but it is the closest one can come to creating this biological terror gas at home. In fact, mixing bleach with urine, ammonia, vinegar should not be done unless you're MacGuyver or some grunt in the trenches, who just happens to have all the ingredients necessary to make this weapon -and needs to make it! Bottom line.... Don't mess with this stuff!

I think nobody has mentioned it because there are rules against posting about how to make dangerous chemical combinations, especially weaponized chemical compounds.

Borek

I think nobody mentioned that, because it has nothing to do with the mustard gas.

asoto1964

Why not mention it? That is exactly what it is.... Check anywhere on the internet, and you can verify that mixing any of these chemicals will absolutely produce a "homemade" grade of this lethal gas. It's just ironic to me because when I hear "Bleach & Ammonia" I automatically think mustard gas. And I did some checking... Most people I asked, when I mentioned, bleach and ammonia automatically thought mustard gas too. It is just strange to me that on a forum where there are so many people that I would consider intelligent, no one would call it that -or at the very least make mention of its biological uses and clear potential for danger as a gas. And, it's like I said before... I am not saying this combination is military grade, but it is a lesser, but still very toxic, version of what the military produces. Listen friend, this hits me close to home because these components nearly killed me some years back. I still suffer from the affects of the combination of these chemicals. I solemnly believe that promoting the dangers of these chemicals, even if only when mixed when urine is present, will definitely save lives.

Borek

Mixing ammonia and bleach can produce chloramines, not a mustard gas.

michaelc187

I use about 10 percent bleach in water; using it
for the shower since college

my problem isn't getting rid of the smell, but how to keep them from coming back?????

the ten percent stuff is a lot more safe, i spray it on my hang down curtains -without worrying about color or smell.

Stopik

This is officially my favorite forum thread from the entire internet of all times.

Stopik

Quote by asoto1964

Why not mention it? That is exactly what it is.... Check anywhere on the internet, and you can verify that mixing any of these chemicals will absolutely produce a "homemade" grade of this lethal gas. It's just ironic to me because when I hear "Bleach & Ammonia" I automatically think mustard gas. And I did some checking... Most people I asked, when I mentioned, bleach and ammonia automatically thought mustard gas too. .

Mustard gas is actually made from sulfur mustards. Specifically mixing sulfur dichloride with ethylene (among a few other methods). Bleach is a chlorite so I can understand the confusion. However anyone stupid enough to mix bleach and ammonia deserves the "chlorinating of the gene pool" that would result. Wait, I just remembered I did the exact same thing when I was nine because my chemistry set told me not to do it. Fair enough.

Ath

Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) should help.

Just rub the dry powder into the offending areas.

Histo-Cat

I have asked about 10 different people the question. I came close on a few people
(VETS) from all the organic chemisty they take, but no one really knew what was really being created in the reaction. One got it right for the Acid Base reaction... if that is still true..
I clean up after my cats in the basement of my house, sort of a small area- as I have on problem cat.. she is now better on Prozac... But I would pour the thick type of bleach on the urine. Then mop up the accident. Sometime the reaction would be so bad, my eyes would start watering, my chest would get tight. I could hardly breath. Then I would stumble out of the area and wonder what the heck is going on?
I stopped using such large amounts, but it was so cheap.
So, Mustard Gas... that is hard to believe. Thanks so much the answer!!

Athiril

Sounds like chlorine gas.

DDTea

I truly don't understand why people perpetuate the myth that chlorine + ammonia --> mustard. It's simply not true. Besides, if you were exposed to mustard, you'd have the tell-tale blisters to show afterward. Sulfur mustards are prepared by chlorinating thiodiglycol or by reaction of ethylene and sulfur dichloride. If you need further evidence, look at the structure of the reactants and products: Mustards (whether sulfur, nitrogen, or other derivatives) ALL have carbon chains in them. Neither Cl2 nor NH3 have any carbon whatsoever in them. Mustard agents are not things that can be prepared "accidentally" and the precursors involved are regulated under the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention (although some do appear in household products).

Just because it's not mustard doesn't mean the vapors produced aren't dangerous. Besides being toxic, the chloramines and hydrazine (under the right conditions) produced are carcinogenic.

Quote by chem geek

There are also other chloramines, including monochloramine and dichloramine, that are produced as well. When I run a simulation at the high pH of bleach, the predominant product is monochloramine, so perhaps that is what you smell though dichloramine is also produced in significant quantities and it is more volatile than monochloramine. I was probably wrong about the nitrogen trichloride since at high pH not much of it is produced.

Richard

bingo.

chemisttree

I'm thinking that someone somewhere said (posted on the Internet) that you could make your own version of mustard gas (tearing, choking nastiness) by mixing these two together. Then someone else came along that didn't know the chemistry of mustards and just assumed that "what they saw on the Internet" was to be taken literally.

Thanks, Al Gore! Now go screw up something else...

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mudder	especially with large quantities of partially dried animal urine

Borek Admin	I think nobody mentioned that, because it has nothing to do with the mustard gas.

michaelc187	I use about 10 percent bleach in water; using it for the shower since college my problem isn't getting rid of the smell, but how to keep them from coming back????? the ten percent stuff is a lot more safe, i spray it on my hang down curtains -without worrying about color or smell.

Stopik	This is officially my favorite forum thread from the entire internet of all times.

chemisttree Recognitions: Gold Member Homework Help Science Advisor	I'm thinking that someone somewhere said (posted on the Internet) that you could make your own version of mustard gas (tearing, choking nastiness) by mixing these two together. Then someone else came along that didn't know the chemistry of mustards and just assumed that "what they saw on the Internet" was to be taken literally. Thanks, Al Gore! Now go screw up something else...