Need help with matrices!


by SamMcCrae
Tags: matrices
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#1
Nov15-12, 10:52 AM
P: 8
How can I turn a 5x5 matrix into a 4x4? I really cannot remember and I need to do it in a coursework I am doing :/ I have a handout on how to do 4x4 into 3x3 but the handout is very confusing.
Phys.Org News Partner Engineering news on Phys.org
Researchers propose network-based evaluation tool to assess relief operations feasibility
Large streams of data warn cars, banks and oil drillers
Engineering student developing traffic forecasts
Studiot
Studiot is offline
#2
Nov15-12, 12:08 PM
P: 5,462
How can I turn a 5x5 matrix into a 4x4?
Do you mean find the determinant of a 5x5 matrix by expanding it to 4x4 then 3x3 etc?
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#3
Nov15-12, 01:56 PM
P: 8
Quote Quote by Studiot View Post
Do you mean find the determinant of a 5x5 matrix by expanding it to 4x4 then 3x3 etc?
Well I don't quite want the determinant yet, I want to make it into a 4x4 now so I can see that it matches up with another 4x4 I've created by a different method (Well that's what I'm ment to do). But I will want the determinant eventually :P

micromass
micromass is online now
#4
Nov15-12, 03:09 PM
Mentor
micromass's Avatar
P: 16,543

Need help with matrices!


Do you mean that you're given a 5x5-matrix and a 4x4-matrix and you want to find out whether they have the same determinant?? Is that what you want to solve?
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#5
Nov15-12, 03:55 PM
P: 8
Quote Quote by micromass View Post
Do you mean that you're given a 5x5-matrix and a 4x4-matrix and you want to find out whether they have the same determinant?? Is that what you want to solve?
I have a 4x4, and a 5x5, I want to make the 5x5 into a 4x4 so that they are both 4x4 and I can verify that they are the same. Determinant will be done later.
micromass
micromass is online now
#6
Nov15-12, 03:58 PM
Mentor
micromass's Avatar
P: 16,543
Quote Quote by SamMcCrae View Post
I have a 4x4, and a 5x5, I want to make the 5x5 into a 4x4 so that they are both 4x4 and I can verify that they are the same. Determinant will be done later.
I'm sorry but this makes no sense. What do you mean with "make a 5x5 into a 4x4"??

How can a 5x5-matrix be the same as a 4x4-matrix?? They are not the same by definition.

Can you give an example of what exactly you mean??
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#7
Nov15-12, 04:03 PM
P: 8
Quote Quote by micromass View Post
I'm sorry but this makes no sense. What do you mean with "make a 5x5 into a 4x4"??

How can a 5x5-matrix be the same as a 4x4-matrix?? They are not the same by definition.

Can you give an example of what exactly you mean??
I was given a method of how to turn a 4x4 into a 3x3 so it is easy to solve which involves moving stuff about and multiplying things. I'll go take a picture of the notes in a minute. We have all to turn a 5x5 into an equivalent 4x4 but I don't totally understand how to.
Number Nine
Number Nine is offline
#8
Nov15-12, 04:28 PM
P: 771
Quote Quote by SamMcCrae View Post
I was given a method of how to turn a 4x4 into a 3x3 so it is easy to solve which involves moving stuff about and multiplying things. I'll go take a picture of the notes in a minute. We have all to turn a 5x5 into an equivalent 4x4 but I don't totally understand how to.
I think you've misunderstood either what you're doing or what the question is asking for. You don't "solve" a matrix; a matrix just represents a transformation. You can "solve" an equation for the determinant of a matrix through cofactor expansion, which might be what you're talking about. You can't "turn a 5x5 matrix into a 4x4 matrix"; they don't even operate on the same sets.
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#9
Nov15-12, 04:39 PM
P: 8
Quote Quote by Number Nine View Post
I think you've misunderstood either what you're doing or what the question is asking for. You don't "solve" a matrix; a matrix just represents a transformation. You can "solve" an equation for the determinant of a matrix through cofactor expansion, which might be what you're talking about. You can't "turn a 5x5 matrix into a 4x4 matrix"; they don't even operate on the same sets.
Here is the method I was given of turning 4x4 to 3x3
Attached Thumbnails
20121115_220731.jpg   20121115_220753.jpg  
SamMcCrae
SamMcCrae is offline
#10
Nov16-12, 02:46 PM
P: 8
Bumpidy bump
Studiot
Studiot is offline
#11
Nov16-12, 02:59 PM
P: 5,462
Well sam, I see you are talking about partitioning the stiffness matrix when you have a matrix equation relating the vector of forces (loads) to the vector of deflections.

You can do this because you are introducing a compatibility relationship.

Partitioning is not the same as reducing the matrix.

Why did you not post this as an engineering question where it might have been more quickly recognised?

What is the actual problem you are trying to solve? - please name your symbols.

Does this help?

http://algebra.math.ust.hk/matrix_li.../lecture.shtml
micromass
micromass is online now
#12
Nov16-12, 03:05 PM
Mentor
micromass's Avatar
P: 16,543
Quote Quote by Studiot View Post
Why did you not post this as an engineering question where it might have been more quickly recognised?
He did post it in the engineering forum. But I thought it was a linear algebra problem, so I moved it to the math forums.
I'll move it back to engineering...
Studiot
Studiot is offline
#13
Nov16-12, 03:06 PM
P: 5,462
Oh sorry.

Studiot
Studiot is offline
#14
Nov16-12, 03:59 PM
P: 5,462
You are able to reduce the size of the matrix because the values of some deflections are known, eg usually zero at supports.

Thus a set of 5 equations can be reduced to four if one deflection is zero.

This is what was meant by insert the zero in your notes.

I cannot say more without more detail.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Adjacency matrices - real matrices or tables? Linear & Abstract Algebra 3
otimes notation and tau matrices used in definition of gamma matrices? Quantum Physics 3
gamma matrices out of pauli matrices - symmetry/group theory Atomic, Solid State, Comp. Physics 0
invertible 3x3 matrices a subspace of 3x3 matrices Calculus & Beyond Homework 3
Matrices - unitary matrices Calculus & Beyond Homework 6