Register to reply

Control system - open loop transfer function and open loop gain

by lazyaditya
Tags: control, function, gain, loop, transfer
Share this thread:
lazyaditya
#1
Nov20-12, 04:25 AM
P: 117
Is there any difference between open loop transfer function and open loop gain ?
Phys.Org News Partner Science news on Phys.org
Experts defend operational earthquake forecasting, counter critiques
EU urged to convert TV frequencies to mobile broadband
Sierra Nevada freshwater runoff could drop 26 percent by 2100
CWatters
#2
Nov21-12, 02:22 AM
P: 3,151
What if the transfer function was

y = Acos(xt + θ)

where θ was a phase shift.

What would the gain be?

What if the open loop gain varies with frequency?
rude man
#3
Nov21-12, 04:54 PM
HW Helper
Thanks
PF Gold
rude man's Avatar
P: 4,856
A transfer function gives gain and phase shift at any given frequency. Gain is the first part of that.

lazyaditya
#4
Nov22-12, 05:47 AM
P: 117
Control system - open loop transfer function and open loop gain

Does this mean that transfer function can provide with negative value due to phase shift !
NascentOxygen
#5
Nov22-12, 07:58 AM
HW Helper
Thanks
P: 5,360
Quote Quote by lazyaditya View Post
Is there any difference between open loop transfer function and open loop gain ?
I think you will find some authors make no distinction, both terms equating to G(s)H(s).
NascentOxygen
#6
Nov22-12, 08:04 AM
HW Helper
Thanks
P: 5,360
Quote Quote by lazyaditya View Post
Does this mean that transfer function can provide with negative value due to phase shift !
There has to be a negative sign somewhere in the loop over the frequency band of interest*, either in G(s) or else H(s), otherwise your loop gain will be +ve and when the loop is closed the system will be unstable.
rude man
#7
Nov22-12, 09:59 AM
HW Helper
Thanks
PF Gold
rude man's Avatar
P: 4,856
Quote Quote by lazyaditya View Post
Does this mean that transfer function can provide with negative value due to phase shift !
Most assuredly yes.

Consider H(s) = 1/s2. Letting s = jω you get a gain of -1/ω2, in other words a phase shift of 180 degrees.

(This is two integrators in cascade FYI).
aralbrec
#8
Nov23-12, 01:07 AM
P: 296
Quote Quote by NascentOxygen View Post
I think you will find some authors make no distinction, both terms equating to G(s)H(s).
That would be the loop gain since H(s) is normally in the feedback path :)

Open loop transfer function and open loop gain are almost used interchangeably. It's assumed to be the 'A' part (or 'G' part) of your standard feedback loop diagram.

Loop gain is the gain after making one lap around the feedback loop from the output of the summer to the input of the summer and is Aβ (or GH) of your standard feedback loop diagram.
NascentOxygen
#9
Nov23-12, 04:33 AM
HW Helper
Thanks
P: 5,360
Quote Quote by aralbrec View Post
Quote Quote by NascentOxygen View Post
I think you will find some authors make no distinction, both terms equating to G(s)H(s)
That would be the loop gain since H(s) is normally in the feedback path
Correct. ... equating both to G(s).


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Open loop transfer function Electrical Engineering 1
Open-loop & Close-loop system Engineering, Comp Sci, & Technology Homework 2
Why open loop transfer function ? Electrical Engineering 1
Open vs closed loop gain Electrical Engineering 4
Open loop gain of an operational amplifier Introductory Physics Homework 1