Subgroups-commutator, normal, Abelian

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the commutator subgroup [G,G] within group theory, specifically focusing on its structure and characteristics as a normal subgroup and its implications for the quotient group G/[G,G].

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the nature of elements in the commutator subgroup, questioning whether it is cyclic and what forms these elements can take. There is also discussion on the definition of normal subgroups and the implications of proving [G,G] is normal for understanding the structure of G/[G,G].

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the definitions and properties of normal subgroups and commutators. Some have offered clarifications and definitions, while others are seeking guidance on specific proofs and interpretations. There is no explicit consensus yet, as various interpretations and approaches are still being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is a hint provided that suggests considering elements beyond just the form [g,h], indicating that the original poster may be missing broader implications of the subgroup's structure. Additionally, the discussion includes a focus on the definitions and properties of normal subgroups, which may not be fully understood by all participants.

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Subgroups--commutator, normal, Abelian

Homework Statement


Let G be a group and g,h in G. Define the commutator of g and h as [g,h]= gh(hg)^-1. Then define the commutator subgroup, denoted [G,G], of G as the subgroup generated by all the commutators of elements of G, i.e. [G,G]=<{[g,h]: g,h in G}>.

(a) What does an element of [G,G] look like?
Hint: it is not enough to only consider elements of the form [g,h].

(b) Prove that [G,G] is a normal subgroup of G.

(c) Prove that G/[G,G] is an Abelian group.


The Attempt at a Solution



(a) Since [G,G] is cyclic, I thought an element would be of some form of [gh(hg)^-1]^n for some n in N. But the hint kind of threw me off...

(b) Initially I wanted to show that gh(hg)^-1 is mm^-1 but I have to show commutativity there and I don't know how to...so there must be another way? I can't seem to get started on this one...

(c) Is this just a consequence of part (b)? Since to show a subgroup is normal you need to use their cosets as an example.
 
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(a) [G,G] is not necessarily cyclic - it's generated by a set. I suggest you look up what this means.

(b) I don't understand what you're saying here. What's the definition of "normal subgroup"?

(c) It's a consequence of (b) that G/[G,G] is a group. Why is it an abelian one?
 


A normal subgroup is some H such that xH=Hx for x in G.
Equivalently, xhx^-1 is in H.
 


Right. Now use the definition to show that [G,G] is normal in G.
 


Well...that's my question here.

This is what I attempted:
Let H be a subgroup of G,
g,g-inverse in G
Then gh is in gH, and (g-inverse)(h-inverse) is in (g-inverse)H.
So then [g,h]=gh(g-inverse)(h-inverse)=gH(g-inverse)H=g(g-inverse)H=eH=H
(since the product of left cosets equals a left coset).

Is that correct? If not...any hints?

If it is right...then I have shown that an element of [G,G] looks like the subgroup H, and then all I need to do now is show xH=Hx?
 

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