Annihilation - matter/antimatter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the annihilation of matter and antimatter, specifically the processes involved when an electron and a positron collide, and the implications for particle creation in the quantum foam. Participants explore concepts related to energy conservation, vacuum energy, and the nature of negative energy particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks whether the energy from the annihilation of an electron and a positron is transformed into new particles created in the quantum foam.
  • Another participant suggests that the energy produced during annihilation may contribute to the creation of new particles, but notes that the existence of "negative energy particles" is not a given.
  • A different participant introduces the concept of vacuum energy, proposing that even a vacuum has a non-zero energy expectation value, and reiterates that antimatter is not equivalent to negative energy matter.
  • One participant questions the origin of negative energy particles in the context of black hole evaporation.
  • A later reply posits that negative energy particles may arise from virtual particle pairs, with one particle having negative energy to conserve the total energy of the pair.
  • Another participant humorously comments on the intriguing nature of antimatter having positive mass, inviting further explanation.
  • One participant provides a mathematical derivation related to the uncertainty principle and virtual pair production, detailing the relationship between energy, mass, and time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and existence of negative energy particles, with some questioning their validity while others propose mechanisms for their existence. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of negative energy particles and their implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about negative energy particles and their role in various physical processes, as well as the dependence on definitions of energy in quantum contexts.

jnorman
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sorry for this elementary question. when an electron (matter) and a positron (anitmatter) collide, they annihilate, releasing high energy photons/gamma rays - correct?

so, when particle pairs are created within the quantum foam, which pop into and out of existence within the Planck time period, where does the annihilation energy go?

and, antimatter is not the same as a negative energy particle, correct? what is a negative energy particle?

thanks.
 
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My understanding is that what happens is that the energy produced when two particles annihilate in the quantum foam is that it almost immediately goes into the production of two new particles. It is not a "given" that there exist "negative energy particles". I believe that they was originally postulated as "anti-particles" but I don't know what their status is now.
 
I believe the energy you're talking about is what we refer to is vacuum energy. The non-zero expectation value of energy in a vacuum implies that even nothing has energy. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

However, I can tell you that antimatter is not the same as negative energy matter. Antimatter has positive mass, as I found out once :).
 
well, then where does the "negative energy particle" come from which supposedly accounts for BH evaporation?
 
benk99nenm312 said:
Antimatter has positive mass, as I found out once :).
This highly-intriguing and imagination-provoking statement (I'm picturing a Family Guy cut-away scene) will probably be much less intriguing if you actually explain it. Best entertainment value if you don't. :wink:
 
In the bubble diagram (virtual pair production) for photons, the total mass (energy) uncertainty is dE=2m0c2 (where m0 = electron rest mass.
The Uncertainty Principle allows a dE for a duration dt = hbar/dE.

If we write hbar = λbar·m0c
where λbar is the reduced electron Compton wavelength, then

dt = hbar/dE = λbar/2c, or

c dt = λbar/2 is the length of the bubble = 1/2 reduced electron Compton wavelength = (1/2)·3.86 x 10-11 cm.

Thus the dt is the time it takes for light to travel ~ (1/2 pi) x electron Compton wavelength.

α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο π ρ ς σ τ υ φ χ ψ ω
± − · × ÷ √ .
 
jnorman said:
well, then where does the "negative energy particle" come from which supposedly accounts for BH evaporation?

The negative energy particle comes from 1 of 2 virtual particles in pair production. If a virtual pair of particles comes in, then one of them has negative energy in order to conserve the total energy of the pair (=0), I believe. The negative energy particle could be the antimatter or matter particle.

Where's George (Jones)? :smile:
 

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