Help Needed: Prime, Square & 0s - Seeking Direction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around mathematical problems related to factorials, prime numbers, and their properties. Participants seek assistance in determining the number of zeros in 1100!, exploring the conditions under which 4p + 1 is a perfect square, and understanding the contributions of prime factors to these calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how many zeros are in 1100!, expressing a need for direction.
  • Another suggests using prime decomposition to prove properties related to highest common factors, indicating that this method may not be the most admirable.
  • Several participants discuss the contributions of the prime factors 2 and 5 to the number of zeros in the decimal representation of a factorial.
  • One participant proposes that there may be 189 zeros in 1100!, but this is not confirmed.
  • A participant questions the method of solving for p in the equation 4p + 1 = x², seeking clarification on how to demonstrate that p is prime.
  • Another participant advises against a specific method of division and suggests using divisibility to explore the factors of the equation.
  • One participant provides a detailed breakdown of how to calculate the highest power of 5 in 1100!, which contributes to finding the number of zeros in 1100!.
  • A later reply introduces a seemingly unrelated topic, Loop Quantum Gravity, indicating a potential disagreement or shift in focus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and methods for solving the problems, with no clear consensus reached on the number of zeros in 1100! or the conditions for 4p + 1 being a perfect square. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing approaches presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the need for further exploration of patterns and divisibility, indicating that assumptions and definitions may affect the conclusions drawn. There is also a lack of clarity on the relationship between the proposed methods and the outcomes.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in mathematical problem-solving, particularly in the areas of factorials, prime numbers, and their properties, may find this discussion beneficial.

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hello all. i am in dire need of direction here and i really appreciate all this help.

how many 0's are in 1100!

prove tuv=(tu,tv,uv)[t,u,v]

only prime that makes 4p+1 a perfect square is p=2.

can anyone please help me? i am in so much need of direction... :confused: :cry:
 
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for the one about highest common factors, this time I would in the first instance just prove it using prime decomposition, though that is not the most admirable way.

suppose 4p+1=x**2, rearrange and factorize and use the defining properties of primes in Z: a number, q, is prime iff when ever q|ab then q|a or q|b.

Remember, this is just mathematics, things just follow from the definitions, sometimes by a clever trick but not usually in questions like this.

Yes there is still soem work for you to do here, but you need to indicate how you're trying to solve them, so start with these hints and tell us how far you get.
 
1. What contributes a '0' to the decimal representation of a product of numbers ? Think about 5s and 2s. Also think about what is the highest power,k, of a prime number, p < n, such that p^k divides n! Try some examples and you'll find a pattern...
 
:smile: woooo, it is by these people on this great site that is making me understand this theory stuff! God love you all! :smile:
 
Gokul43201 said:
1. What contributes a '0' to the decimal representation of a product of numbers ? Think about 5s and 2s. Also think about what is the highest power,k, of a prime number, p < n, such that p^k divides n! Try some examples and you'll find a pattern...
perhaps there are 189 zeros?
 
matt, by setting it up like this, do i solve for the p b/c that is what i am looking for right? do i'd have 4p+1=x**2. = 4p=x^2-1 and then divide by 4, thus, p=x^2-1/4. pick an x and show that it is prime? reply and let me nkow if this is right.

i'm sorry gokul, i just cannot find a pattern here yet... i can see how i.e. p=11 but that is all i can come up with.. I'm sorry if I'm not seeing it yet plese maybe a little more insight??
 
Please don't divide like that. Use divisibilty. Since 4p=(x+1)(x-1) and prime factorizations are unique in Z then one of the following cases must hold: x+1 is one of 1,2,4,p,2p or 4p, and x-1 the other factor. Which of those systems gives of equations is solvable in Z with p prime?
 
How many multiples of 5 among [1,1100] ? Clearly, this is = floor(1100/5) = 220.

But then, every multiple of 25 gives you and extra factor of 5 not counted above. There are floor(1100/25)=44 such 5s.

Similarly there are floor(1100/125) = 8 additional factors of 5 from multiples of 125.

And finally, there is 625, which gives you another extra 5.

So the higest power of 5 in 1100! is 220+44+8+1=273 {which is just = floor(1100/5) + floor(1100/5^2) + floor(1100/5^3) + floor (1100/5^4) }

Similarly, you can find the highest power of 2 in 1100! The lower of these two numbers gives you the highest power of 10 in 1100!, which is the number of zeros.
 
Loop Quantum Gravity,

One of us is wrong. I think I'm right.
 

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