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What is out of the page and into the page mean in magentic field?

by Suy
Tags: field, magentic
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Suy
#1
Oct9-09, 05:23 PM
P: 107
1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data
I am really confused, and why magnetic field is created in a current,
electron or the wire create the field?

ty, any help would be appreciated
2. Relevant equations



3. The attempt at a solution
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Gear300
#2
Oct9-09, 05:51 PM
P: 1,133
You can visualize your standard 3 dimensions with one dimension as left-right, one as up-down, and the other as forward-backward. Displaying 3 dimensions on a page is time-consuming, so they use "into the page" for forward and "out of the page" for backward.

I can't really say why something happens, but an electric field that changes over time can induce a magnetic field. In a current, you have a net movement of charges, so the electric field of a charge at some point is changing due to that charge moving farther away.
Suy
#3
Oct9-09, 06:00 PM
P: 107
but where is the page in magnetic field? between two magnet?

Suy
#4
Oct9-09, 06:08 PM
P: 107
What is out of the page and into the page mean in magentic field?

also can you teachme how to do this question,
an electron is traveling north through a magnetic field that is vertically upward. in what direction will the magnetic force be?
for this question , if i use left hand rule, how is it possible to move the thumb and and finger both north(upward?)
ty!
berkeman
#5
Oct9-09, 06:13 PM
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Quote Quote by Suy View Post
also can you teachme how to do this question,
an electron is traveling north through a magnetic field that is vertically upward. in what direction will the magnetic force be?
for this question , if i use left hand rule, how is it possible to move the thumb and and finger both north(upward?)
ty!
We use the right hand rule by convention, not left.

The correct equation to use is the Lorentz force equation. Can you show us that equation? Are you familiar with how the vector cross product in that equation works?
Suy
#6
Oct9-09, 06:26 PM
P: 107
but my teacher said we use left hand rule, in Calgary
i am not sure, in the textbook, it said use left hand for electron, and right hand for positive

this one ?
berkeman
#7
Oct9-09, 06:32 PM
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Quote Quote by Suy View Post
but my teacher said we use left hand rule, in Calgary
i am not sure, in the textbook, it said use left hand for electron, and right hand for positive
In my opinion, that is a bad way to teach the Lorentz Force equation. When there is no electric field (just magnetic field as in your problem statement), the Lorentz Force on a moving charge is given by:

F = qv X B

Where F is the resultant vector force, q is the charge, v is the vector velocity, and B is the vector magnetic field.

q has a + sign if it is positive charge, and a - sign if it has negative charge. That changes the direction of the first vector in the cross product, which is why you use the RHR always, and get the correct answer for both negative and positive charges.

Have you learned the vector cross product yet?
Suy
#8
Oct9-09, 06:36 PM
P: 107
no , i guess, i am new to magnetic and we just finish electric field
Do i need this F = qv X B to answer the question?
berkeman
#9
Oct9-09, 06:42 PM
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Using the right hand rule, a crossed into b gives c

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_rule

Which is what you are doing with the Lorentz force equation. qv crossed into B gives you the force F. If the sign on the charge is negative, that turns the direction of the qv vector around, so you still use the RHR but with the qv vector pointing the opposite way.
Hurkyl
#10
Oct9-09, 06:45 PM
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Quote Quote by Suy View Post
but where is the page in magnetic field? between two magnet?
The page is the surface upon which the picture you're viewing is drawn.
Suy
#11
Oct9-09, 08:04 PM
P: 107
can you tell me the answer and i will figure it out, because i don't know much about that equation yet...
ty !
berkeman
#12
Oct9-09, 11:07 PM
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can you tell me the answer and i will figure it out, because i don't know much about that equation yet...
ty !
The answer to which question? We don't tell you answers to your homework problems, but we can try to answer specific questions about things that you are confused about.

Like, look at the 3rd figure down in this wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_rule

It shows you how the magnetic B field circulates around a current-carrying wire. Does that help?
Oblivion77
#13
Oct9-09, 11:38 PM
P: 113
Quote Quote by Suy View Post
but my teacher said we use left hand rule, in Calgary
i am not sure, in the textbook, it said use left hand for electron, and right hand for positive

this one ?
I am in Calgary, all of the teachers I had have used the right hand.
Suy
#14
Oct10-09, 10:18 PM
P: 107
Quote Quote by berkeman View Post
The answer to which question? We don't tell you answers to your homework problems, but we can try to answer specific questions about things that you are confused about.

Like, look at the 3rd figure down in this wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_rule

It shows you how the magnetic B field circulates around a current-carrying wire. Does that help?
I just asked someone, everything is clear for me now.
thx for all


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