BH3 Valence Bond: Explaining 3 Bonding Orbitals

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the bonding and hybridization in the BH3 molecule, specifically focusing on the formation of bonding orbitals and the implications of hybridization versus molecular orbital theory. Participants explore the electronic configuration of boron and the nature of its bonding with hydrogen, including the role of different orbitals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes boron's electronic configuration and suggests that it forms three bonding orbitals through sp2 hybridization, questioning the fate of the remaining 2p orbital.
  • Another participant corrects the first by clarifying that the 1s orbital should be referred to as 2s in the context of hybridization and discusses the energy levels of the orbitals.
  • A different viewpoint is presented regarding the number of orbitals involved in bonding, suggesting that boron has one 1s, three sp2, and one 2p orbital, leading to a discussion about nonbonding orbitals.
  • One participant raises the idea that applying molecular orbital theory may render hybridization irrelevant, expressing difficulty in understanding the molecular orbital diagram for a three-atom system.
  • A lengthy post elaborates on quantum mechanics and electron configuration, discussing shells, subshells, and the concept of covalent bonding, but does not directly address the original question about BH3.
  • Subsequent posts shift focus to meta-discussion about sticky threads and moderation, indicating a diversion from the scientific topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of hybridization versus molecular orbital theory, and there is no consensus on the treatment of the remaining 2p orbital or the implications for bonding in BH3.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' arguments rely on specific interpretations of hybridization and molecular orbital theory, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion includes speculative reasoning about the nature of bonding and the behavior of orbitals without definitive conclusions.

el_hijoeputa
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I'm working a problem with the BH3 molecule. Therefore boron is 1s^2 2s^2 2p^1, and using the hypotetical method, it forms hybird sp2 orbitals. Promoting an electron to get 1s^2 2s^1 2p^2.

My question is that, it will form 3 bonding orbitals, one from the 1s and 2 from the 2p orbitals... what happends to the third 2p orbital? If I do an energy level diagram, do I have to list this orbital as a nonbonding one?
 
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I think you didn't intend to write "1s", but you'd write "2s". In a hybrid orbital like sp2, s orbital is raised to a higher energy while p orbitals' are somewhat lowered, eventually meeting at the same energy level. The third orbital will be unaffected, due to boron's geometric hybrid state. However you may force this hybrid system to give a sp3 hybrid orbital, as in BH4-. What you'll do is basically leave this 2p orbital unattended (at the same energy level), to show that it is not involved in this type of bonding.
 
Therefore boron will have one 1s three sp2 and only one 2p orbital, and when bonding with thy hydrogen it will leave (from bottom to top in energy) a 1s orbital nonbonding, 3 sigma bonds, a nonbonding pz (for example) and three antibonding?
 
You are trying to apply molecular orbital theory on the compound, in which hybridization is used to describe the phenomenon. If you will use MO theory, then it will be of no use to mention about hybridization, I think. Hybridization leaves its place to MO, that's right. But I couldn't devise a diagram for MO, as it is three-atom-based MO diagram (which I encounter difficulties in understanding).
 
Thank you chem_tr, thank you very much for your help.
 
Electrons are attracted to protons, but repell electrons. So, instead of all the electrons being bunched up right next to the nucleas, they orbit around the nucleas in shells. These shells can sometimes contain sub-shells. For example, the first shell contains only one sub-shell. As an electron gets further away from it's atom, it must have more "quantum energy." Electrons want to get as close to the nucleas as possible, but according to quantum physics, no to electrons can have the same "quantum energy." So, they orbit in shells. The electrons orbit in orbitals. The sub-shells have orbitals. For example, the 1 shell has an S orbital. Because it's an s orbital and it's the first shell it's labelled 1S. For 1-First shell-, S-S orbital. An S orbital has the shape of a sphere. An orbital wants to fill it's self. Alright, so why would the atom want to have 8 electrons in it's outer most shell, good question. The second shell has two sub-shells. One sub-shell has an S orbital, and the second has three P orbitals. The reason it has three is because they can arrange themselves according to X,Y,Z. Each orbital has only two electrons, because no two electrons can have the same "quantum energy." So, for the valence shell of an atom with two shells, one S orbital and three P orbitals. Two electrons an orbital adds to...8. Hydogen, on the other hand, only has one shell. So, to fill it's valence shell, it only needs two electrons. It already has one - Hydogen = one proton, one electron - so, it only needs to bond with one atom to fill itself. Carbon, on the other hand, has two shells, so it needs 8 to fill it's valence shell. So...

H
H C H Methane! CH4.
H

If you were to count it up everyone's filled. The carbon atom has 6 electrons. 2 in it's first shell, and 4 in it's valence shell. It needs 8 in it's valence shell. So, it shares one with hydrogen, and the hydrogen shares one of the carbons. This gives the carbon an extra electron, and the hydrogen it's desired two. The carbon, then, bonds with three more to add to 8.

HOH Water! H20. Oxygen has six valence electrons, meaning it needs 2 to gain, which it does with 2 hydrogen molecules.

O=O Oxygen! O2.

You're probably wondering, why is there an equals sign between the Oxygen molecules?
This indicated a double bond. Oxygen has six valence electrons, when it bonds with another oxygen, it gets 7. That's not the desired 8. So, it makes a double bond, and they share two electrons each. Which adds to 8.

O
O O Ozone! O3. Each one of these atoms share with each other, making 8.

That's covelant bonding!
This "quantum energy I told you about is somewhat true. What's really true is that there are four "quantum numbers" that cannot match.
The first is N.
N is the energy of an electron. For example, an electron in the first shell would have an N of 1. An electron in the second shell would have an N of 2. An electron in the third shell would have an N of 3.
N=1, means it's in the first shell.
The second is L. It's actually a greek cursive L kind of like this. l. Okay. This sign is the orbital. L = N - 1. That's the equation. So, if N = 1, then, L = 0. 0 is an S orbital.
If N = 2, L can equal either 0 or 1. If it is 1, that's a P orbital. If N = 3, then that can be either 0,1 or 2. An S,P or...a D orbital.
Now, the third quantum number is M. It is the orientation of the orbitals, you know XYZ.
M can equal anything between -L and +L. For example if L is 1, then M can equal -1,0,1.
This is 3 different ways of arranging the P orbital.
Now the final one is Ms. For Spin. The spin of the electron can equal - 1/2 or 1/2.

Okay, so let's look at the possible arrangements of some electrons.

N L M Ms
1 0 0 -1/2
1 0 0 1/2 First shell, only can have two electrons.

2 0 0 -1/2
2 0 0 1/2
2 1 -1 -1/2
2 1 -1 1/2
2 1 0 -1/2
2 1 0 1/2
2 1 1 -1/2
2 1 1 1/2 Second shell, eight electrons, but none of them, nor the one's in the first shell have the same 4 quantum numbers.

HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO WRITE, I'D HATE TO LOSE IT AT THE LAST MOMENT, LIKE THE POWER SHUT DOWN OR SOMETHING. IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE REST.
HERE'S SOME SITES.

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/gench...h6/quantum.html

http://lectureonline.cl.msu.edu/~mm...od/electron.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey Dual op Amp, ask moderators to create a sticky post with that! (the fourth time)
:wink:
 
What's a sticky post, and how do I ask a mod?
 
Dual Op Amp said:
What's a sticky post, and how do I ask a mod?
Excuse my English, I meant "sticky thread"

A sticky thread is a tread that remains everytime in the first place of the queue, for example Monique´s "chemical laTEX typeset" thread in this section. Moderators post them as a note for everybody to read them.

Only moderators can post them, as far as I know you can´t ask them to post a sticky thread. I was just joking, cos you post 4 times the same thing.
If you want to tell things that you´ve already post you can insert a link to it.

Anyway that reply reveals effort in explanation and is a good try to help. Congratulations.
 
Last edited:

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