Register to reply 
Quantum Physics from Classical Physics with an epistemic restriction 
Share this thread: 
#1
Jun412, 05:13 PM

P: 380

talking about ψepistemic, ψontic and ψcomplete models.
How would the world appear to us if its ontology was that of classical mechanics but every agent faced a restriction on how much they could come to know about the classical state? http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.5057v1.pdf ...The success of this model in reproducing aspects of quantum theory provides additional evidence in favour of interpretations of quantum theory where quantum states describe states of incomplete knowledge rather than states of reality... [a ψ epistemic hidden variable model] . 


#2
Jun512, 02:51 AM

Sci Advisor
P: 4,599




#3
Jun512, 12:13 PM

P: 380

To have one's cake and eat it, too ? or make room for: http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/...nphys2309.html (PBR Theorem, former alluded) ...Here we show that any model in which a quantum state represents mere information about an underlying physical state of the system, and in which systems that are prepared independently have independent physical states, must make predictions that contradict those of quantum theory..... . 


#4
Jun512, 12:29 PM

P: 380

Quantum Physics from Classical Physics with an epistemic restriction
and this one:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5334v1.pdf ...However unlike pilotwave theory, the model is stochastic, the wave function is not physically real and the Born’s statistics is valid for all time by construction. Moreover, the construction is unique given the classical Lagrangian or Hamiltonian. Finally, assuming that λ ﬂuctuates around ~ with a very small yet ﬁnite width, then the model predicts small correction to the prediction of quantum mechanics. This might lead to precision test of quantum mechanics against our hidden variable model... 


#5
Jun512, 01:26 PM

Sci Advisor
PF Gold
P: 5,377

"It is then imperative to ask how our model will deal with Bell’s nogo theory. Since our model reproduces the prediction of quantum mechanics for specific distribution of λ, then for this case, it must violate Bell inequality which implies that it is nonlocal in the sense of Bell [11], or there is no global Kolmogorovian space which covers all the probability spaces of the incompatible measurement in EPRtype of experiments [12], or both. We believe that this question can be discussed only if we know the physical origin of the the general rules of replacement postulated in Eq. (7). To this end, a discussion on the derivation of the rules from HamiltonJacobi theory with a random constraint is given some where else [13]." [13] includes a reference to the work of De Raedt et al, as well as others. So basically he ignores the issue. Not sure how he expects that to fly, since the use of Bell is to dig out these issues BEFORE the remainder of the theory is examined closely. Since there is no explicit nonlocal or nonrealistic agent identified in the theory, how can it be internally consistent and agree to QM? Bell says it won't. 


#6
Jun512, 02:08 PM

P: 380

respect nonlocality is, bolded letters. 


#7
Jun512, 02:16 PM

Sci Advisor
PF Gold
P: 5,377

I saw the nonlocality deal, which was OK to say, but I didn't see that there was anything nonlocal in the actual model. The issue is that things like that should be highlighted because they often lead to other testable hypotheses. Not good to ignore a little thing like a new type of nonlocal mechanism. I read it that he was wiggling, not saying it is nonlocal explicitly. It is very good that he includes a testable prediction elsewhere. But hard to believe that it is worth investigating when Bell is not properly addressed. Of course, that is just my take and we know what that's worth. 


#8
Jun512, 03:15 PM

Sci Advisor
PF Gold
P: 5,377




Register to reply 
Related Discussions  
Classical Physics compared to Quantum Physics?  General Discussion  2  
Classical and quantum physics.  Quantum Physics  7  
Why subclassical physics and quantum physics  Classical Physics  5  
Classical Physcics VS Quantum Physics  General Physics  7  
Quantum physics vs classical physics  Quantum Physics  2 