Solid, Liquid or Gas: Identifying Matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying the physical states of matter (solid, liquid, gas) through various examples, including ferrous iodide and sodium phosphate. Participants explore the influence of chemical bonding, temperature, and pressure on phase transitions, as well as the concept of metastable states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the physical state of a compound cannot be determined solely from its chemical formula.
  • It is noted that physical states may change with temperature, pressure, and time.
  • One participant requests an example of a first-kind phase transition where a system in one phase undergoes a transition to another phase without modifying external conditions.
  • Another participant proposes that the discussion may involve non-equilibrium (metastable) states.
  • Some participants argue that certain compounds can be inferred to be solids or gases based on the types of bonds present, such as ionic or covalent bonds.
  • Milk is mentioned as an example of a substance that changes state over time, although there is uncertainty about whether this qualifies as a phase transition.
  • There is a correction regarding the classification of milk's change to powder as evaporation rather than a phase transition.
  • One participant comments on the age of the thread, indicating that it has been inactive for a significant period.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to identify the physical state of matter and the nature of phase transitions, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of phase transitions and the conditions under which they occur, as well as the distinction between equilibrium and metastable states.

Roxy
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How do you know if something is a solid, liquid or gas. Like ferrous iodide or sodium phosphate?
 
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As far as I know, there is no way to tell just by looking at the chemical formula.

- Warren
 
Physical state may change upon temperature, pressure and even time...
 
chem_tr said:
Physical state may change upon temperature, pressure and even time...

Could you please give an example of a phase trasition of the first kind in which,assuming a system in one phase (e.g.solid) and nonmodifying the external conditions (temperature,pressure and other parameters),the system would undergo a phase transition (into e.g.fluid)??

Daniel.
 
Well,...you can sort of guess as to which "state" a compound is by looking at what bonds it together;

For example, MgBr2 is probably a solid because of the ionic bonds;
Li2 is a solid by metallic bonds
O2 is a gas, because its covalent bond is very weak
CH3COH may be liquid, because of the dipole-dipole intermolecular attraction with that OH end there

Network compounds are usually solid, as they possesses very strong covalent bonding, so are ionic compounds, because ionic bonds are strong as well

H2 is a gas, because it has almost no intermolecular force between the H2 molecules

Well, given the formula, you can generally "sorta" guess as to what its state would be at STP--to verify this and to check for other temperatures/pressure, see a phase diagram for your compound
 
dextercioby said:
Could you please give an example of a phase trasition of the first kind in which,assuming a system in one phase (e.g.solid) and nonmodifying the external conditions (temperature,pressure and other parameters),the system would undergo a phase transition (into e.g.fluid)??

Daniel.
I think chem_tr may be referring to non-equilibrium (metastable) states.
 
It's the only reasonable explanation...

Daniel.
 
Yes, I meant metastable states; Gokul is right.
 
dextercioby said:
Could you please give an example of a phase trasition of the first kind in which,assuming a system in one phase (e.g.solid) and nonmodifying the external conditions (temperature,pressure and other parameters),the system would undergo a phase transition (into e.g.fluid)??

Daniel.

Milk. Milk turns into powder over time.

Although, I'm not sure, as technically milk is composed of a lot of elements, you may be looking for a compound or singular element, not just a mixture.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Gokul43201 said:
I think chem_tr may be referring to non-equilibrium (metastable) states.

'Metastable' can be a bit misleading though. Diamonds are pretty stable at STP.
 
  • #11
HungryFox said:
Milk. Milk turns into powder over time.

That's evaporation, not a phrase transition.
 
  • #12
That's necromancy, last post in the thread was almost 5 years old.
 

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