Applications of Derivatives using Pythagoras

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around applications of derivatives in various scenarios, including rates of change related to shadows, distances between moving ships, and the filling of a water trough. The subject area primarily involves calculus and geometric reasoning, particularly the use of Pythagorean theorem and properties of similar triangles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the distances and rates of change in the context of shadows and moving objects. Questions arise regarding the application of derivatives and the relevance of specific measurements, such as the initial distance between ships and the dimensions of the water trough.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights and partial solutions, particularly for the first problem involving the shadow of a man walking away from a lamp post. Others are seeking clarification on the second problem regarding the ships and the third problem about the water trough, indicating a mix of understanding and uncertainty. There is an acknowledgment of the need for further exploration of similar triangles in the context of these problems.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the application of time and distance in the ship problem, as well as the need to differentiate the area of a triangle in relation to the water level in the trough. There is also a mention of homework constraints and the expectation for participants to engage with the material independently before seeking direct solutions.

erik05
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Hello. Could anyone help me with a few questions that I'm stuck on? Any suggestions would be much appreciatd.

1) A man 2m tall walks away from a lampost whose light is 5m above the ground. If he walks at a speed of 1.5 m/s, at what rate is his shadow growing when he is 10m from the lampost?


Using pythagoras and taking the derivative I got:

[tex]\frac{dy}{dx}= \frac{-x}{y} \frac{dx}{dt}[/tex]

The derivative of x with respect to t(time) is 1.5 m/s so I think what I'm trying to find is the derivative of y with respect to t. Not too sure what to do here now but the answer is suppose to be 1m/s.

2) At 1:00 p.m. ship A was 80 km south of ship B. Ship A is sailing north at 30 km/h and ship B is sailing east at 40 km/h. How fast is the distance between them changing at 3:00 p.m.?

I think it's the times that is messing me up. Tried using the derivative of pythagoras again but where does the 80 km fit in? Answer: [tex]\frac{130}{\sqrt{17}} = 31.5 km/h[/tex]

3) A water trough is 10 m long and a cross section has the shape of an isosceles triangle that is 1m across at the top and is 50 cm high. The trough is being filled with water at a rate of 0.4 m^3/min. How fast will the water level rise when the water is 40 cm deep? Answer: 5 cm/min

Would differiantiating the equation for the area of a triangle fit into this?

Anyways, thank you in advance.
 
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erik05 said:
Hello. Could anyone help me with a few questions that I'm stuck on? Any suggestions would be much appreciatd.

1) A man 2m tall walks away from a lampost whose light is 5m above the ground. If he walks at a speed of 1.5 m/s, at what rate is his shadow growing when he is 10m from the lampost?

Not too sure what to do here now but the answer is suppose to be 1m/s.

I'll do this one for you. Yes, the answer is 1m/s. Make a diagram of the lampost and the man (let base of lampost be at origin (0,0) and base of man at (10,0). Horizontal distance from man to lampost is 10 m. Draw a line from top of lampost passing through top of man and extend it till it hits x-axis. It will hit x-axis at (16.67,0), so length of shadow = 16.67-10 = 6.67.

Generalise: let x be the distance from base of post to base of man, let y be length of shadow. Then by properties of similar triangles:

y/2 = (x+y)/5, so y = 2x/3, hence dy/dx = 2/3. So if x is growing by 1.5 m/s, then y will be increasing by 1.5*(2/3) = 1 m/s. QED.
 
erik05 said:
3) A water trough is 10 m long and a cross section has the shape of an isosceles triangle that is 1m across at the top and is 50 cm high. The trough is being filled with water at a rate of 0.4 m^3/min. How fast will the water level rise when the water is 40 cm deep? Answer: 5 cm/min

Would differiantiating the equation for the area of a triangle fit into this?

Anyways, thank you in advance.
Previous msg completed Problem #1. Solution to Prob #2 uses similar techniques to Prob #1. Here's Prob #3:
{Length of Trough} = (10 m)
{Base of Triangular Cross-section} = (1 m)
{Height of Triangular Cross-section} = (50 cm) = (0.5 m)
{Area of Triangular Cross-section} = (1/2)*{Base}*{Height} = (1/2)*(1)*(0.5) = (0.25 m^2)
{Volume of Trough} = {Length}*{Area} = (10)*(0.25) = (2.5 m^3)

{Height of Water in Trough} = H
{Base of Water Triangular Cross-section} = (1 - 0)*(H - 0)/(0.5 - 0) = 2*H
{Area of Water Triangular Cross-section} = (1/2)*{Base}*{Height} = (1/2)*(2*H)*(H) = H2
{Volume of Water in Trough} = V = {Length}*{Area} = (10)*(H2) = 10*H2
{Water Fill Rate} = (0.4 m^3/min)

Water Volume time rate of change is given by (dV/dt). Thus, from the above data:
(dV/dt) = (d/dt){10*H2} = (10)*(2)*(H)*(dH/dt) = (20)*H*(dH/dt)

It's given that {Water Fill Rate}=(0.4 m^3/min), so we place this value into the above equation and solve for (dH/dt) when H=(40 cm)=(0.4 m):
(0.4) = (20)*H*(dH/dt)
::: ⇒ (dH/dt) = (0.4)/{(20)*H} = (0.02)/H = (0.02)/(0.4)
::: ⇒ (dH/dt) = (0.05 m/min) = (5 cm/min)

~~
 
Last edited:
Ah, you have to remember the property of similar triangles for number 1. I see. Any hints for question number two?
 
erik05 said:
Ah, you have to remember the property of similar triangles for number 1. I see. Any hints for question number two?

Questions like #2 are solved as examples in most calculus texts. Please look them up. If you still can't get the solution by tomorrow evening, I'll do it for you.
 

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