What determines whether or not snow sticks to my windshield?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ori Vandewalle
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factors that determine whether snow sticks to a car's windshield, particularly focusing on the effects of speed, friction, and the properties of snowflakes. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of this phenomenon, including fluid mechanics and material properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that snow builds up on the windshield when stationary but does not stick at higher speeds, suggesting that kinetic energy may play a role.
  • Another participant proposes that snow sticks due to friction, and when the drag force from the air exceeds the frictional force, the snowflakes slide off.
  • A participant acknowledges the friction hypothesis but raises concerns about the difficulty of determining the coefficient of friction between snow and glass.
  • Calculations are presented by one participant estimating the coefficient of friction based on various parameters, leading to a potentially high value that suggests the critical speed for snow sticking could be lower than estimated.
  • Another participant questions the assumptions made about the drag coefficient of snowflakes, noting their irregular shape and the variability in snowflake behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms at play, particularly regarding the role of friction and drag. There is no consensus on the exact coefficients or the behavior of snowflakes, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention challenges in measuring the coefficients of friction and drag for snowflakes, highlighting the complexity of the problem and the potential variability in snowflake characteristics.

Ori Vandewalle
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
It snowed last week and I noticed that, when my car was stationary, snow built up on the windshield, but above about 10 mph (4.5 m/s, if SI units are required here), the snow didn't stick. I'm wondering what accounts for the difference.

My first thought was that the extra kinetic energy of my car's motion would be enough to sublimate falling snowflakes. After a few mathematical missteps, however, I determined that my car would have to be going about a thousand times faster than I was willing to drive it to get the required amount of energy. That is to say, this was too little energy by a factor of about a million.

Which leaves me at somewhat of a loss. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the temperature of my windshield plays a role, but I can't see how my car moving forward would affect that equation.

The only other thought that comes to mind is that the air my car pushes through might exert some pressure on an incoming snowflake, such that the snowflake isn't able to land. But the physics I've taken was a little light on fluid mechanics, so I'm not sure how to proceed from there.

Any help you folks can provide would be greatly appreciated. I don't even require anyone to spell out the answer for me; if I can be pointed in the right direction, I'll try to work out the problem myself.

Some relevant factoids: Wiki says a typical snowflake is 1019 water molecules, which would give it a mass of about 3x10-7 kg, and I estimated that a snowflake's terminal velocity is somewhere around 1 m/s from this paper.

Thanks.
 
Earth sciences news on Phys.org
Welcome to PF, Ori Vandewalle! :smile:

Snow sticks due to friction.
When you drive at speed, the air exerts a force (drag).
When the force of the air is greater that the required friction to stick, the snow flakes will slide off.
 
Heh. The physics I've taken certainly wasn't light on objects sliding along inclined planes. I really should have guessed that myself. Thanks!

There is a wrinkle, though, which is that finding the coefficient of friction between snow and glass is not exactly easy. What I can do is accept your hypothesis as true, guess that my 10 mph estimate is accurate, and see if a reasonable μ pops out of the force equation. Doing that, I've got friction and weight pulling the snowflake down the windshield, and drag pushing it up.

With an esimate of 3x10-7 kg for the snow, the drag coefficient of a sphere for the snowflake (.1), a circular snowflake with a diameter of 1 cm, and a 40° angle for my windshield, I get a μk of .53. Looking around at other coefficients of friction for snow, I bet this is a little high, which means the critical speed is lower (likely) and/or my rough estimate of the shape and size of a snowflake is wrong (very likely).

But hey, at least the results aren't entirely unreasonable.
 
I wouldn't know what the drag coefficient of a snowflake is.
It's not really spherical.

And I wouldn't know what the coefficient of friction is either.
It's not really a nicely defined mass with more or less smooth edges.

I guess the best way to find out is by trying it out.
And I suspect that different types of snow flakes exhibit significantly different behavior.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
21K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K