Partial Differentiation, complication in variables held constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of partial differentiation in spherical coordinates, specifically addressing the reasoning behind holding certain variables constant during differentiation. Participants explore the implications of the chain rule in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the variables theta and phi are held constant when differentiating with respect to r in spherical coordinates.
  • Another participant explains that holding theta and phi constant is a standard application of the chain rule for partial derivatives, emphasizing the implicit dependence of the variables.
  • A further response suggests that the differentiation can be expressed in terms of the chain rule, providing a formula for the partial derivative of a function with respect to r.
  • Participants discuss the use of specific functions and relationships between x, y, z, and r to illustrate the application of the chain rule in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There appears to be a general agreement on the application of the chain rule for partial differentiation, but the initial participant's confusion about the constants indicates that some aspects of the explanation may still be unclear or contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the initial participant's confusion regarding the application of the chain rule and the treatment of variables as constant, indicating a need for further clarification or examples.

maple
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Hi,

this is a pretty trivial question. would be grateful if someone could answer it for me.

in spherical polars x=rcos(theta)sin(PHI) and so on for y, and z

Now, why is

d/dr= dx/dr*d/dx + dy/dr*d/dy+ dz/dr*d/dz

where everything is partial. dx/dr, dy/dr and dz/dr at partial derivates held at contant thetha and phi.

why are they held at constant thetha and phi?

r^2=x^2 + y^2 + z^2

so r=function of (x,y,z)

thus we can write this out as an exact differential we get:

dr=dr/dx*dr + dr/dy*dy + dr/dz*dz

dr/dx is held constant wrt y,z etc. and NOT thetha and phi.

Can some explain how the differential at the top works.

thanks
 
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"constant theta & phi"...It's nothing special,really.It's the plain old CHAIN RULE for partial derivatives.An implicit dependence of variables requires this chain rule...U should write

[tex]f\left(x(r,\vartheta,\varphi),y(r,\vartheta,\varphi),z(r,\vartheta)\right)[/tex]

and the simply apply the chain rule...

Partial differentiation is ordinary differentiation,but with some of the variables "kept constant" while evaluating that limit implied by the def.

Daniel.
 
thanks daniel,

can you actually spell all this out? I'm not sure how to put what you said into practice.

Many thanks.
 
"f" depends on [itex]r[/itex] implicitely,by means of the functions [itex]x(r,...),y(r,...),z(r,...)[/itex].So applying the chain rule,one gets simply

[tex]\frac{\partial f}{\partial r} =\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial r} + \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{\partial y}{\partial r}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial z}\frac{\partial z}{\partial r}[/tex]

and the same for the other 2 implicit variables.

U can use the diffeomorphism

[tex]\left \{ \begin{array}{c} x=r\sin\vartheta \cos\varphi \\ y=r\sin\vartheta \sin\varphi \\ z=r\cos\vartheta[/tex]

together with

[tex]f\left(x\left(r,\vartheta,\varphi\right),y\left(r,\vartheta,\varphi\right),z\left(r,\vartheta\right)\right) = x^{2}+z^{3}y+\sqrt{xyz}[/tex]

to find the 3 partial derivatives wrt the implicit variables...


Daniel.
 

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