Is there a formula for these circles?

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    Circles Formula
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generation of patterns using complex matrices from the group SL(2,C) and their application through linear fractional transformations (Mobius transformations) on the complex plane. Participants explore the possibility of deriving formulas for the centers and radii of circles formed in the resulting patterns, as well as the geometric relationships between these circles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents six 2x2 complex matrices and describes their application to create a self-similar pattern in the complex plane, questioning if a formula for the circles' centers and radii can be derived.
  • Another participant proposes a formula for the radius of the central white circle as R = (1+k)/(1-k) for k=0.7, noting its effectiveness but expressing uncertainty about the reasoning behind it.
  • Further contributions suggest that the diameters of other circles can be derived from geometric relationships, with specific formulas provided for the smaller circles and scaling factors.
  • One participant challenges the simplicity of the initial findings by presenting a different pattern for k=0.6, where the smaller black circles do not touch, despite the radius formula still holding true.
  • Another participant introduces the context of Lorentz transformations and relativistic light aberration, linking the generated patterns to a hypothetical scenario involving a UFO pilot manipulating controls in various directions.
  • A later update reveals an algorithm for generating circles based on the Mobius group's action on the space of circles, noting the complexity due to non-commuting maps.
  • Another update includes an animation showcasing the effects of varying the velocity parameter on the generated patterns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationships between the circles and the validity of the formulas proposed. While some formulas appear to work for specific values of k, there is no consensus on a general solution or understanding of the underlying principles.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of the transformations and the geometric properties of the resulting patterns, which may not be universally applicable. The complexity of the Mobius transformations and their effects on circle generation is acknowledged but not fully resolved.

arkajad
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I have six 2x2 complex matrices from the group SL(2,C). Each line is a matrix: first row, second row.

\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> \left\{\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} &amp; \left\{\frac{k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \left\{\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{i k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} &amp; \left\{-\frac{i k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \left\{\frac{k+1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},0\right\} &amp; \left\{0,\frac{1-k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \left\{\frac{1-k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},0\right\} &amp; \left\{0,\frac{k+1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \left\{\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},-\frac{i k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} &amp; \left\{\frac{i k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \left\{\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},-\frac{k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} &amp; \left\{-\frac{k}{\sqrt{1-k^2}},\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-k^2}}\right\} \\<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)

Let us take k=0.7 and act with these matrices on the complex plane via linear fractional transformations (Mobius transformations):
z\mapsto\frac{az+b}{cz+d}.
Selecting an arbitrary starting point and applying consecutively randomly selecting matrices several millions of times ("Chaos Game") we create a pattern. Here is the pattern in the square -8&lt;x,y&lt;8
oct_st_8.jpg

The pattern seems to be self-similar. Here is the central square -1&lt;x,y&lt;1
oct_st_1.jpg


Question: Is it possible, looking at the transformations to find a formula for the centers and the radii of all these circles? What kind of a formula would it be? A closed algebraic expression? An algorithm?

P.S. You can create this pattern yourself using Quantum Fractal Generator. Just choose Alpha=0.7, Chaos Game, Fractal Type: PlatonicOcta, Display Type Stereographic, XY LIMIT 8.0, Fractal Algorithm: Chaos Game, Color Scheme: Grayscale, 10 mln iterations.
P.S2: Your computer will crash if you try to implement the transformations as described in my post. The trick is to do it on the Riemann sphere rather than on the complex plane.
 
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Update

After asking the above question I started playing with numbers. I think I have the formula for the radius of the central white circle:

guess_1.jpg


The formula is:

R =\frac{1+k}{1-k}

For k=0.7 this gives R = 5.66...

It seems to work. But I do not know why it is so. And I do not know anything about the black holes.
 
Interesting picture, and I have no idea how you generated it.

As far as I can see, all other diameters follow from geometry. The diameter of the big holes in the red circle satisfies (1+sqrt(2))*r = R, the smaller circles (similar to the big ones) have (1+sqrt(2))r' = (sqrt(2)-1)r.

$$r=\frac{R}{1+\sqrt{2}}$$
And we have a scaling factor of
$$s=\frac{\sqrt{2}-1}{\sqrt{2}+1} =(\sqrt{2}-1)^2$$
 
mfb said:
Interesting picture, and I have no idea how you generated it.

As far as I can see, all other diameters follow from geometry. The diameter of the big holes in the red circle satisfies (1+sqrt(2))*r = R, the smaller circles (similar to the big ones) have (1+sqrt(2))r' = (sqrt(2)-1)r.

$$r=\frac{R}{1+\sqrt{2}}$$
And we have a scaling factor of
$$s=\frac{\sqrt{2}-1}{\sqrt{2}+1} =(\sqrt{2}-1)^2$$

Wow! I did not notice it. And it was in plain sight. Thanks!

Explaining how the picture is generated would require some space. The same for my guess about the formula for the radius of the white circle (I calculated the infinitesimal area change of the square of the fourth transformation and looked for the solution of it being = 1).
 
Nope!

Nope. For k=0.6 we get this picture:

guess6.jpg


Not that simple. My formula for the radius of the white circle still works - it is R=4 this time (The whole picture is from -8 to 8). But the smaller black circles do not touch. It was the particularity of k=0.7 that they seemed to be tangent.
 
Last edited:
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arkajad said:
For k=0.6 we get this picture:

That's really neat!
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
That's really neat!

Thanks. Perhaps it is of interest that my six matrices describe six special Lorentz transformations, all with velocity v = 0.88 c, but in six different directions (+/- of each of three coordinate axes). The picture arises as the result of the relativistic light aberration when a monkey is piloting the UFO (able to instantly accelerate and change direction) with a joystick with six positions, and the monkey, looking at a fixed star, is randomly manipulating the joystick 100 mln times.
 
Update

I have found the algorithm for generating white (maximum density of hits) circles. The idea is that the Mobius group acts on the 3-dimensional space of circles (in mathematics this is a part of "Lie spheres geometry"). So given the transformations, and starting with one circle (say, a great circle on the sphere), we can generate generations of new circles. One can write the algorithm for doing this. There is no simple formula as we are dealing here with a composition of non-commuting maps (relativistic boosts in different directions) Here is the result (of course it makes no sense to generate circles that are too small to be seen as such on the image):

plcol06.jpg


They fit perfectly the structure that is seen on the fractal:

circles06.jpg


(Colors inverted, circles and fractal overimposed).

With black circles it is more difficult. In fact thy are not circles - they are circle-like shapes contained in circles.
 
Update

Update: I managed to make an animation going through the different values of the velocity parameter (from about 0.999 c to about 0.5 c)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL13EC9Im1E
 

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