Energy required to keep air in a plasma state

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the energy required to maintain air in a plasma state, particularly focusing on the electrical fields necessary for both initial ionization and ongoing maintenance of the plasma. Participants explore theoretical aspects of plasma creation, stability, and the role of electric fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the strength of the electrical field required to maintain plasma compared to that needed for initial ionization.
  • Another participant explains that maintaining plasma involves balancing ionization and recombination, which depends on discharge current or plasma temperature.
  • There is a suggestion that a static electric field could be used to keep ions and electrons apart, raising questions about the stability of diatomic ions and the nature of plasma.
  • A participant proposes the idea of using insulated electrodes to create a static electric field that does not conduct current but could potentially hold ions and electrons apart.
  • One participant mentions the phenomenon of ball lightning and its creation in a microwave, noting the challenges in controlling it for study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses and ideas regarding the maintenance of plasma and the use of electric fields, but no consensus is reached on the effectiveness or stability of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the balance between ionization and recombination without resolving the specific conditions or assumptions required for different methods of maintaining plasma. There is uncertainty regarding the stability of certain ions and the practical implementation of insulated electrodes.

Felix83
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Say that you are continuously creating plasma with some sort of sparking device. How strong of an electrical field is required to keep this air in its ionized state, compared to the field needed to ionize it initially?
 
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In creating the plasma in the first place, in the discharge (current of electrons), the electrons strike the atomic electrons knocking them out of the atom, if I may put it so crudely. However, the free electrons will slow by collision and will recombine with an ion.

In order to maintain a plasma, one usually needs to maintain the discharge, or heat the plasma to the point where the collisions maintain a certain level of ionization. One the achieves a balance between ionization and recombination, which is a function of the discharge current or plasma temperature.

As for using a static electric field, the electrons would drift to the positive electrode and ions to the negative electrode. The ions would then neutralize on the negative electrode.

Now theoretically, one could put the air in a chamber, and ionize it in the presence of a static electric field. Presambly one would end up with + and - ions, e.g. O2+ and O2- or N2+ and N2-, however I am not sure about the stability of diatomic ions. Perhaps there is a some monatomic ions as well, and I believe triatomic O3, aka ozone, is possible. However, the presence of + and - ions is not the same as + ions and free electrons, which is the conventional meaning of a plasma.
 
As for using a static electric field, the electrons would drift to the positive electrode and ions to the negative electrode. The ions would then neutralize on the negative electrode.

What if the electrodes had a non conductive sheild? You have one set of electrodes to create a spark to ionize the air, and a second set with the insulating coating that don't create current but just create a static electric field. Would the insulated electrodes hold the ions and electrons apart?
 
You can make a type of plasma called ball lightning in your own microwave how ever they have not managed to keep it controlled long enough to study it, if you wish to find out how exactly go to google and type in ball lightning, it is well worth doing
 

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