What Are the Bonds and Forces in a Water Molecule?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the types of bonds and forces present in a water molecule, exploring concepts such as ionic bonds, polar covalent bonds, hydrogen bonds, and their interactions. The scope includes theoretical aspects of bonding and forces, as well as references to classical and quantum perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the bonding in water involves ionic bonds and van der Waals forces, while others clarify that the O-H bonds are polar covalent bonds.
  • It is noted that hydrogen bonds are a type of dipole-dipole interaction resulting from the polar nature of O-H bonds, although this characterization is contested.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that hydrogen bonds have a quantum origin, involving superposition states of hydrogen in multiple molecules.
  • Some participants argue that classical electrostatic interactions in molecular dynamics simulations of hydrogen bonds in water provide accurate approximations, suggesting that the classical view is valid.
  • One participant discusses the energetic contributions of ionic character to bonding, indicating that ionic contributions are significant, but also acknowledges that the picture is not entirely classical.
  • There is a correction regarding the definition of hydrogen bonds, with a participant asserting that they can also occur intramolecularly, not just as intermolecular forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of hydrogen bonds, the role of ionic character in bonding, and the validity of classical versus quantum descriptions. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of terms like hydrogen bonds and the assumptions underlying the classical and quantum models presented. Some mathematical steps and the implications of different models remain unresolved.

alanveron
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what's the bonding and forces that exist in a water molecule?is it ionic bond and van der waals force?
 
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Bonding itself is just a kind of force. The O-H bonds in a water molecule are polar covalent bonds. You also have forces between water molecules - known as Hydrogen bonds, which are a kind of dipole-dipole interaction caused by the polar nature of the O-H bonds.

Look here for pictures :

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/bio4fv/page/polar_c.htm

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/bio4fv/page/hydroge.htm

...those are not great explanations, but they are not a bad place to start.
 
Gokul43201 said:
Bonding itself is just a kind of force. The O-H bonds in a water molecule are polar covalent bonds. You also have forces between water molecules - known as Hydrogen bonds, which are a kind of dipole-dipole interaction caused by the polar nature of the O-H bonds.

Look here for pictures :

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/bio4fv/page/polar_c.htm

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/bio4fv/page/hydroge.htm

...those are not great explanations, but they are not a bad place to start.

Hydrogen bonds are not a kind of "dipole-dipole interaction caused by the polar nature" of the O-H bonds. Hydrogen bonds are of quantum origin, caused by superposition of hidrogen into two molecules at once.

H-O·······H-O-H (quantum state 1)

H-O-H·······O-H (quantum state 2)

H-O·····H·····O-H (quantum superposition)
 
Thanks for the clarification. I shall look into it now. Meanwhile, if you have some references to suggest, I would be grateful.

Nevertheless, MD simulations of hydrogen bonds (in water) as essentially classical electrostatic interactions have proven to be pretty accurate (Sciortino et al, Luzar & Chandler). So, I believe the classical view is not a terrible approximation.
 
Last edited:
Juan R. said:
H-O·····H·····O-H (quantum superposition)

would read like
----------H
-----------\
H-O·····H·····O--H

In the EV approach, one can study the different contributions of diferent wavefunctions to bond. Yes, the most important contribution (more than 90% energy) are ionic ones. Therefore you was right on the energetic ionic character of bond. This is the reason of sucess of classical siimulations. However, note that is not completely a classical picture, because one may study two posibilities of ionic breaking, it possesses some degree of orientational preference (pure electrostatic attraction is spheric), and can be shown to have some of the characteristics of a covalent bond.

Reference:
I used volume 2 of Diaz Peña on Química física. I think that many textboks on physical chemistry or quantum chemistry can help to you.

I also find this
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/01/990121074852.htm

Note: I verify some online resources (e.g. Wikipedia) and many do the same mistake.

"hydrogen bond is a type of attractive intermolecular force"

This is not true because there is also intramolecular hidrogen bonds.
 
Last edited:

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