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Will too much adenosine triphosphate kill you?

by Tyro
Tags: adenosine, kill, triphosphate
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Tyro
#1
Nov21-03, 07:47 PM
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Can synthetic ATP be made? What happens if synthetic ATP were injected into someone? Will the person just become temporarily superhuman or will they just die of a heart attack (like what an adrenaline overdose does).
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adrenaline
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Nov21-03, 08:36 PM
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Don't see how someone can become superhuman unless the ATP stays unaltered and goes directly into the mitochondrial matrix.

As for wether it's harmful, I look to another ergogenic supplement, the creatine usage in athletic sports enhancement (Creatine does improve moderately non aerobic performance involving burst of explosive activity since it acts somewhat like pyruvate as a direct P donor in the Kreb's cycle to generate ATP in muscle tissue.) These athletes have only minimal or modest benefit. Large doses do cause cramping and slight dehydration. It is eliminated through the kidneys so those with renal insufficiency are told not to use it, There are also cases of interstitial nephritis with its usage. There is one case study of fulminant rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle and kidney failure) in a body builder who ingested supratherapeutic doses. So yeah, can it probably can harm you. Too much of a good thing, can be bad. Only clinical trials using large amounts of supplemenation with ATP will show us how truley toxic or beneficial it is. A cell biologist will probably be able to add more to my simplistic overview.
As for wether large amounts can be synthetically made, don't know.
iansmith
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Nov21-03, 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Tyro
Can synthetic ATP be made?
Yes, we use ATP everyday in biotech lab.


Originally posted by Tyro
What happens if synthetic ATP were injected into someone? Will the person just become temporarily superhuman or will they just die of a heart attack (like what an adrenaline overdose does).
they will not become superhuman because ATP is just an energy source. The only benefit is that the effort could be substained longer but the ATP has to reach the cell that are doing the work and the ATP has to diffuse inside the cell. We spend a lot of ATP per minutes.

Also
The brain is unable to store ATP and the mitochondria are unable to “share” ATP from other organs mitochondria. It is estimated that the demands for a resting human are 40Kg (88 Lbs.) of ATP per 24-hours! During strenuous activity this demand increases to 500g (1.1 Lbs.) per minute!

hypnagogue
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Nov22-03, 12:56 AM
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Will too much adenosine triphosphate kill you?

Originally posted by iansmith
The brain is unable to store ATP and the mitochondria are unable to “share” ATP from other organs mitochondria. It is estimated that the demands for a resting human are 40Kg (88 Lbs.) of ATP per 24-hours! During strenuous activity this demand increases to 500g (1.1 Lbs.) per minute!
OK, I hope this doesn't make me look like an idiot.. But seeing as how I (and most people, I hope) don't ingest 88 lbs. of nutrients per day, where does the material for all that ATP come from? Seems like a massive violation of conservation of mass.
chroot
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Nov22-03, 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by hypnagogue
OK, I hope this doesn't make me look like an idiot.. But seeing as how I (and most people, I hope) don't ingest 88 lbs. of nutrients per day, where does the material for all that ATP come from? Seems like a massive violation of conservation of mass.
The molecule is recycled, getting another dose of energy with each round of the krebs cycle.

- Warren
Another God
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Nov22-03, 02:09 AM
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I think that quote is very misleading. See, what it probably means is that we use X ATP molecules per minute. 1 ATP molcule weighs Y, therefore we use X x Y g of ATP.

What is misleading about this statement is that ATP is used and turned into ADP, which is then converted back into ATP by catabolising sugars etc. So we don't 'use up' that many kilograms of it, we just convert it temporarily.

The mass thing is just misleading.

Yes, we use ATP everyday in biotech lab.
But is that extracted from cell masses? Or is it synthetically made?
Monique
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Nov22-03, 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by Another God
But is that extracted from cell masses? Or is it synthetically made?
I wonder the same, I couldn't find any references on Google for synthetic ATP. Which company are you getting the ATP from Ian?
Monique
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Nov22-03, 05:24 AM
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If you have an excess of ATP, won't the mitochondria start hydrolyzing it to ADP?
iansmith
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Nov22-03, 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Monique
I wonder the same, I couldn't find any references on Google for synthetic ATP. Which company are you getting the ATP from Ian?
From invitrogen, it is probably synthetic because it is fairly cheap. It must be easy to create ATP. It is just ribose sugar and phospate, all you need is an enzyme to do the reaction. When you extract molecules from cell if can become quite expensive and it must reaquired like a tone of cell to create 1 ml of ATP. Plus we use GTP, CTP and TTP.
Monique
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Nov22-03, 10:15 AM
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And besides NTPs, you have got dNTPs, and ddNTPs.. especially the ddNTPs must be synthetic.
nautica
#11
Nov22-03, 10:34 AM
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For athletic performance - you are going about it all wrong.

How about this, provide the body with excess O2, in order to help in the synthesis of atp and at the same time limit the production of latic acid. The problem with this is the the body only utilize about 23% of the O2 input. So then maybe, we could increase our uptake of O2.

The overabundance of ATP would be completely useless if the muscle were shut down, due to lactic acid - which is produced, due to the lack of O2.

How would we go about this??? Increase the number of red blood cells via EPO or androgens. Simple as that, and yes they would be considered superhuman, if you would like to see one of these "superhumans" - turn to ESPN.

Nautica
Meninger
#12
Nov22-03, 11:18 AM
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Regarding the biological cycles in which ATP participates in I am sure that ATP is not the only rate limiting agent.

Keep in mind though that adenosine, a component of ATP, is one agent responsible for inducing sleep. Adenosine is released in the brain if cells cannot maintain an adequate supply of ATP. Adenosine is a substance that is bradly distributed in the extracellular fluid of the brain and has a strong hyperpolarizing influence on the cerebral cortex. So it seems feasible that if ATP is properly inserted, that this would delay this cycle.

Relating to chemistry...remember the equilibrium constants which is always the same as well as La Chatelier's principles. This will help you understand the dynamics of decreasing or increasing ATP.
Chemicalsuperfreak
#13
Nov24-03, 01:20 PM
P: 324
Originally posted by Monique
If you have an excess of ATP, won't the mitochondria start hydrolyzing it to ADP?
I'd expect it to inhibit glycolysis and increase gluconeogenesis.

As for where ATP comes from, I'd expect it just to be collected from biological sources as is or made in just a couple of steps. From other biologically isolated materials like adenosine. It certainly wouldn't be synthesized from petroleum byproducts, which is often what is implied when you say synthetic.


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