Acceleration of charges at Big Bang

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the acceleration of charged particles during the Big Bang and its implications for the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR). Participants explore the relationship between inflation, the formation of charged particles, and the nature of radiation in the early universe, including concepts of baryogenesis and the transparency of the universe at different epochs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that charged particles, such as protons and electrons, should have been accelerated by inflation, leading to the emission of light that contributes to the CMBR.
  • Others argue that massive particles did not form until after the inflationary period, suggesting a timeline that complicates the connection between inflation and the CMBR.
  • It is noted that the universe became transparent to radiation during the era of recombination, which occurred significantly after inflation, raising questions about the timing and source of the CMBR.
  • Some participants question the source of CMB radiation, suggesting it must have originated from processes occurring before the universe became transparent.
  • There are claims that the CMB photons result from the annihilation of matter and antimatter, with discussions on the asymmetry in baryogenesis affecting the matter that remains today.
  • One participant highlights the processes that contributed to the black-body spectrum of the CMB, including Compton scattering and Bremsstrahlung emission, emphasizing the thermal equilibrium prior to decoupling.
  • Another participant raises a point about whether electromagnetic energy could have been produced during inflation, regardless of the universe's transparency.
  • Questions are posed regarding the timing of baryogenesis and the nature of the matter that survived annihilation, indicating uncertainty about the origins of the observable matter in the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relationship between inflation, charged particles, and the CMBR. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing opinions on the timing of baryogenesis and the implications for the early universe's radiation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the timeline of events in the early universe, the definitions of transparency, and the processes involved in the formation of the CMBR. Unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on specific models are present in the discussion.

Macro
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
If charged particles; like protons and electrons and the others;
come out of the singularity then they ought to be accelerated
by inflation. If a great increase in space epxansion took place and
this is identical to "accelerating" then charged particles ought
to have radiated light. This burst of inflationary radiation is what
we see now as "Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation."
The light emitted during the inflationary epoch would be
redshifted by the inflation itself. Cosmologically speaking
expansion/inflation redshifts light. Stretching space stretches
the light traversing that space.

If we can calculate the original radiation from these accelerating
particles then by comparing their wavelength now(CMBR) we might
be able to accertain the exact duration of the "inflation." We could
know exactly how long it took place.

Anybody say differently?

Mitch Raemsch -- Light Falls --
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
IIRC, massive particles did not form till after the inflationary period.
 
macro: Take a look at

http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/BB.html

The universe became transparent to radiation in "the era of recombination", way, way, way after inflation, somehwere around 1 million years after the big bang. The CMB dates from this era, before this era, radiation was absorbed as soon as it was emitted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Even in case that the universe would have been transparent to radiation and that there had existed charged particles at that time, if you consider the comoving reference frame in which the cosmological principle holds, there is no motion of objects (matter, charges, fields. etc.) in space.
 
pervect said:
macro: Take a look at

http://cassfos02.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/BB.html

The universe became transparent to radiation in "the era of recombination", way, way, way after inflation, somehwere around 1 million years after the big bang. The CMB dates from this era, before this era, radiation was absorbed as soon as it was emitted.

What then is the source of the CMB radiation at 1 million years?
It has to saturate the universe from the very beginning.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Macro said:
What then is the source of the CMB radiation at 1 million years?
It has to saturate the universe from the very beginning.
The source of the CMB photons is the annihilation of matter and antimatter, which existed in different amounts due to an asymmetry in the baryogenesis.
 
...matter and antimatter which formed everywhere throughout the universe from the 'plasma' that permeated the universe and was thinned/cooled by the expansion of space.
 
Macro said:
What then is the source of the CMB radiation at 1 million years?
It has to saturate the universe from the very beginning.

Here is the situation as I understand it:

http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2001-2&page=articlesu9.html

4.1.1 Primordial black body effects
The black body spectrum of the isotropic background is essentially due to thermal equilibrium prior to the decoupling of ions and electrons, and few photon-matter interactions after that. At sufficiently high temperatures, prior to the decoupling epoch, matter was completely ionized into free protons, neutrons, and electrons. The CMB photons easily scatter off electrons, and frequent scattering produces a blackbody spectrum of photons through three main processes that occur faster than the Universe expands:

* Compton scattering in which photons transfer their momentum and energy to electrons if they have significant energy in the electron’s rest frame. This is approximated by Thomson scattering if the photon’s energy is much less than the rest mass. Inverse Compton scattering is also possible in which sufficiently energetic (relativistic) electrons can blueshift photons.
* Double Compton scattering can both produce and absorb photons, and thus is able to thermalize photons to a Planck spectrum (unlike Compton scattering which conserves photon number, and, although it preserves a Planck spectrum, relaxes to a Bose-Einstein distribution).
* Bremsstrahlung emission of electromagnetic radiation due to the acceleration of electrons in the vicinity of ions. This also occurs in reverse (free-free absorption) since charged particles can absorb photons. In contrast to Coulomb scattering, which maintains thermal equilibrium among baryons without affecting photons, Bremsstrahlung tends to relax photons to a Planck distribution.

So the universe was opaque before the plasma condensed into non-ionized matter, and the above processes gave it a black-body spectrum. After the formation of matter, this ~3000 degree thermal radiation has been redshifted to the ~3 degree microwave bacground we see today due to the expansion of the universe.

See also the wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What about my first point?

If there were charges to radiate during inflation the acceleration would have produced electromagnetic energy whether or not the universe was yet transparent.

You get a soup of matter/light.
 
  • #10
hellfire said:
The source of the CMB photons is the annihilation of matter and antimatter, which existed in different amounts due to an asymmetry in the baryogenesis.

When did this matter anti-matter exist?
It anhilates right off when the universe was small.
And what kind of matter does the asymmetry leave behind?
It's not the matter we observe.

what is it?
 
  • #11
According to this timeline, baryogenesis took place at 10-33 sec. after the big-bang. However, as far as I know there are proposals that postulate a later baryogenesis. The matter we observe today is made of the elementary particles that did not annihilate during that epoch.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K